Last night when my head hit the pillow I realized something: The best season of LOST had just ended with the best episode ever. My opinion of course, but it was also my pillow. Way too many things to talk about, so no clever intro. Things I Noticed:
What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue? Red Snapper
Nothing could be cooler than opening the finale with this amazing scene. Delivering Jacob two minutes into the finale was awesome writing... waiting until the end to reveal him would've definitely been too little too late. In what's possibly the most pivotal scene in all of LOST, Jacob and the stranger in the dark shirt reveal an ageless battle between light and dark, fate and free will, maybe even between good and evil itself. All this while the Black Rock sails along in the distance, within the shadow of what now looks to be Anubis, jackal-god of death.
The dark man is annoyed at Jacob's attempts to keep bringing new players, or pieces, onto their chessboard. "They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt"... these are the points he makes to indicate once again that Jacob will fail to prove him wrong. He seems to suggest that the darker sides of human nature won't allow the circle to be broken. No matter who's on the ship, or the next ship, (or the airplane...) "It always ends the same". Jacob's response: "It only ends once. Anything that happens before that? It's just progress".
This conversation is the crux of the entire show. The dark man is resigned to the fact that LOST's loop will never be broken. He argues that Man's destructive history and propensity for war will never allow anything but corruption. This is an inner corruption too; one of the heart and soul. The dark man is judging humankind here on a very general basis - it doesn't matter who the Black Rock brings to the island, he believes Jacob will never be right.
Jacob on the other hand, believes in change. Maybe even an inner change, brought about by sacrifice and purity. All throughout LOST we've seen the terrible things done by everyone throughout their flashbacks. They've each been guilty of being impure on one level or another. Lying, cheating, stealing, killing - there are skeletons in every closet. At one time or another, every single one of our characters has done something to prove the dark man right... something that could be judged to be impure by his own definition of human nature. Everyone, of course, except for one person: Hurley.
So just as the dark man believes this wheel will spin round and round, forever unchanged, it's Jacob's opposite belief that there will be an ending. One single ending. And everything else that happens up to that point? It's nothing but practice. Progress. Evolution. Because eventually, Jacob believes that someone will be born out of all this record-skipping mayhem that will have the purity needed to end this really long game. Someone who passes judgment. Someone who can actually change things.
"Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?" The casual coolness of this line totally made the scene for me. It summed up the power struggle between these two entities (demi-gods?), and how neither one has been able to triumph over the other. When the dark man suggested "I'm going to find a loophole", I could've sworn he said "We're in the final loophole"... after replaying it a half-dozen times I'm going with the obvious first choice, but I also wonder if maybe it wasn't made to sound that way intentionally. Jacob's answer to the dark dude's death threat? Bring it.
What can we conclude here? It's obvious to me at least, that the guy in the dark shirt represents the smoke monster. This fits well with all the judging we've seen smokie do throughout the show. He abhors Jacob constantly bringing in all these tainted outsiders to violate the sanctity of his island. He killed Mr. Eko for refusing to repent. He destroyed the pilot before he could radio for help... to keep other slimy corrupt humans from finding the island. The smoke monster is the island's judge and jury, but he's also locked in a timeless power struggle with Jacob - one that goes by a very specific set of rules (the book of laws?) These dictate what they can and cannot do, and one thing they seemingly can't do is move the chesspieces around the board with their own hands. They can indirectly influence these moves by manipulating certain things, but the ultimate choices must eventually be made by the pieces themselves.
Perhaps this also explains why the kids, Zach and Emma, were taken away so early in the show. While they're almost certainly innocent and pure, they also haven't grown up yet. They haven't had the chance to be exposed to the vices of man, or to make any potentially corruptible decisions. Therefore, they don't count. And because they don't count, they cannot be pieces in this game... and are quickly removed.
I also found it interesting how the dark man refused Jacob's offer of fish with the line "I just ate". I'm probably not the only person wondering exactly what, or who, he just ate. The whole scene absolutely rocked. I think it opened the finale by shedding all new light on the way we'll view the island, the show, and everything else from here until the end of the series.
Juliet... Master Architect of The Great Sub Escape
If anyone took charge of their own destiny this episode, it was Juliet. She made some very command decisions last night, and all of them were key to bringing about the final resolution at the end. You had to feel bad for Sawyer, too. Even to the very last minute, Sawyer fought hard for his off-island fantasy. Seems like he really wanted to give living an honest life with Juliet a try, but as she points out later on, it probably wasn't ever meant to be.
I also give Juliet credit for knowing and accepting a lot of really hard things. For one, even though she knew her life with Sawyer wasn't ever meant to happen, she loved and clung on to it with both hands. This is why she agrees with Kate to go back to the island. If Jack were allowed to hit the show's reset button, it would erase everything she had with James. Juliet would rather give up any chance at freedom if it meant still having a life with the one man who really made her happy. She even looks back woefully at the sub's periscope as it disappears, inwardly knowing it was her last shot at ever leaving the island.
Richard - Now 0 for 2 When it Comes to Picking Leaders
As Sayid dismantles Jughead according to Dan's crazy scribbles, 1977 Richard has a few questions for Jack. He explains that he's visited a young John Locke three times already, and in none of those instances did he see anything that would indicate Locke to be 'special'. As we'll see later on, maybe John Locke wasn't special after all. He was a puppet in life, and a puppet in death: nothing more than a vessel used by the smoke monster on his quest to find a loophole.
Richard's instincts are correct here, but then Jack tells him not to give up on Locke. Maybe it's these very words that cause Richard to approach Locke on that hill a few seasons ago, incorrectly pushing the role of leadership upon him. Locke was never supposed to be chosen. He didn't have any more of a claim to leadership over the Others than Ben did. Richard was wrong on both counts... or so it seems that way. More on Locke later.
The one thing however that Richard is very serious about: protecting those leaders once they're chosen. Pistol-whipping Eloise was a good start to the violence that overwhelmed the whole second half of this episode. As much as Eloise wants to prevent the death of her son by helping Jack's mission succeed, Richard's loyalty to keeping her (or maybe her child?) safe precludes that. So it ends up with just Jack, Sayid, two jumpsuits, a bomb, and a whole lot of flying bullets.
Hurley & The Van to the Rescue - Parts II and III
This isn't the first season finale where Hugo drives to everyone's rescue in a periwinkle van. In fact, he even does it twice this episode. When the shit hits the fan, it seems like Hurley's always there to turn the fan off. And Jack's look as he saw Jin helping him load Sayid into the van was priceless.
Also priceless? The angry Jackface we got right after Roger put a bullet in Sayid's stomach. Jack went OFF this episode! He served bullets to anyone who looked hungry. I also have to say, Sayid's "Don't shoot me because I'm carrying a nuclear devic-" argument was a little weak considering the current situation. When Dharma's at DefCon 1 and you're staring down the barrel of Roger Linus' rifle? It's time to duck. Diplomacy goes out the window, here.
And just as it was lucky that Jack had the key to the janitor's closet a few episodes ago, it's equally lucky that Hurley just happens to know where the Swan station is. It's a good thing he and Miles are in the circle of trust, because it's not like they could stop at a gas station and ask directions.
What's in the Shadow of the Statue? A Whole Lot of Anti-Aging Cosmetics
All our little LOST lives we've been waiting for cool interactions like the ones between Locke, Richard, and Ben - and now we get them rapid-fire, all at once. In another great scene we see Richard pull Locke aside to call bullshit on his resurrection. Locke responds by calling double-dog bullshit on Richard for never aging. And that's when we get at least a partial answer to a BIG question we've always wanted the answer to: "I'm this way because of Jacob".
Finally seeing the origins of Richard Alpert will be one of the great scenes of Season 6, and I'm looking forward to it. And now that we know Richard's eternal youth is Jacob's doing, we can theorize he left him altered that way as the ageless keeper and counselor for the Others. These are Jacob's people, and apparently the dark man hasn't been able to touch them. Probably because they're island-born: they maintain a certain purity by living on its soil, drinking its waters, fishing its oceans. They're not intruders, and so he has no beef with them. That's my guess anyway.
Of bigger importance this scene is what Locke says will happen after Jacob is killed. He tells Richard that they're going to need to "take care of" the rest of the people from Ajira 316. Smokie has it out for the shadow-statue people, putting them firmly on the side of Jacob. The fact that he plans on doing anything after Jacob is dead also tells us that the battle isn't fully over, and that the monster will most likely keep using the form of John Locke next season. Which is awesome, because none of us want to see the end of Terry O'Quinn.
Someone's Been Sleeping In Jacob's Bed
And they trashed his whole cabin, too. Maybe ghost Claire had some friends over? Whoever it was, they even took down all his cool dogs playing poker paintings - something that was totally uncalled for.
And as Illana rummages through the ruins of Horace's once great vacation spot, we see the cabin for the first time in stark, revealing daylight. This time there's nothing spooky or supernatural about it: it's just a very run-down cabin. We don't need Illana's words to Bram in order to realize that whoever or whatever was using the cabin is now long gone. We also learn that Jacob hasn't been there for a very long time, and that "someone else" was using the cabin. Oh, and the machete note pinned to the wall? That's left there by Jacob, to let Illana know where she and the shadow-statue people can find him.
My theory on this is long and complicated, and probably has some holes in it... but here it is:
The man in the dark shirt was somehow imprisoned in the cabin, kept there by the circle of ash. This is who we first saw say "Help me" when the cabin was introduced. Maybe Jacob tricked him in there and trapped him, and maybe Richard even helped. This could explain why the dark man could at first only appear in one of his most ancient forms - the smoke monster - because his physical being was stuck in the cabin behind the circle of ash. We also saw him appear in the forms of Yemi and Alex, but only after having scanned the minds of the people who knew those characters.
Whatever the case, once the circle was broken the entity was allowed to leave. It took the form of Christian, but it also knew that Richard would never lead Christian to where Jacob was hiding out. It therefore needed to take the form of John Locke, a man who Richard envisions should be the true leader of the Others. As Richard points out, only the leader of the Others would be permitted an audience with Jacob... it's part of "the rules" and the smoke monster knows this.
And so the dark dude/monster develops an elaborate plan: To become Locke, it knows the original John Locke needs to die. But the island (Jacob?) won't let allow Locke to die; this is best evidenced when Ben shoots him point blank and he somehow lives. It realizes it needs to get Locke off island in order to kill him. It then uses ghost Christian to manipulate Locke into turning the wheel, where it knows/hopes Locke will be killed, while at the same time planting seeds in Locke's head that he'll need to die in order to come back. Ben dutifully brings Locke's body back on Ajira 316, thinking he's doing the island's bidding when he's actually doing the opposite.
The smoke monster takes over from there. All that's left at that point is to gain a weapon with which to kill Jacob. That weapon is Ben, and the dark man has been sharpening that weapon for a long time now.
That's The Door to the Hatch, Where You and I First Met
After breaking through a thick wall of sarcasm, Locke asks Ben about his initial meeting with Jacob in the cabin. Ben admits to never having seen Jacob, even opening up to being embarrassed that he'd been living a lie. He'd lied to his people, Locke's people, and Locke himself. Bitterly, Ben realizes he was never special. He wasn't ever supposed to be chosen, and Richard made the wrong decision in bringing him to the temple. Ben's sacrifice wasn't a sacrifice at all - he was taken without ever given a chance to decide... forced to lead a people whom he didn't belong to, made to follow a leader he could never see. His whole life has been nothing but a big lie, and he tells Locke so. And once he admits it, Locke seems satisfied with the answer. Is this the smoke monster judging Ben again, trying to get him to admit his big charade? Hell yes.
Then Ben asks Locke why he wants HIM to kill Jacob. Locke responds by throwing more fuel on the fire... giving Ben's motivations against Jacob a huge push. The dark man/smokie wants to breed anger and resentment toward Jacob, causing Ben to lose control of himself again the way he did when he killed Keamy. The smoke monster is honing Ben to a razor-sharp edge this last episode, breeding the anger and resentment needed to strike the killing blow.
The act of actually finding Jacob is being taken care of by Richard. The dark man needs to locate him, and Richard is obliged to lead him there in the form of Locke. When they finally get there: "Well that's a wonderful foot Richard, but what does it have to do with Jacob?" Look at the sideways glance he gives Richard when he responds by telling him that's where Jacob lives. Almost like "Damn, that should've been the first place I checked!"
Jacob's Oceanic 815 Round-The-World Tour
In some of the coolest moments this episode, we get to watch Jacob visit a bunch of the main characters at all different points in their lives. Some were kids, some were adults. Sometimes Jacob spoke, and sometimes he didn't say much of anything at all. As I watched these meetings I wondered what the purpose was. I couldn't understand why Jacob was taking the trouble to show up in all these characters lives for such brief moments. But then I watched the episode a second time, and suddenly I saw a common thread that ran through every single one of the meetings: In each scene, Jacob *touched* the person he was visiting.
* Jacob buys Kate a New Kids lunchbox, then tries to tell her not to steal again. A moment later, he touches Kate on the nose.
* Jacob hands James Ford a pen so he finish writing his infamous letter to the real Sawyer. As he does that, his hand lingers on young James' fingers.
* With Sayid, he's even sneakier. Jacob waits until Nadia gets creamed, then reaches up and touches Sayid on the arm as he turns his head.
* After his fall, Jacob touches Locke distinctly on the shoulder. His touch also seems to almost revive (or resurrect?) him.
* At Sun & Jin's wedding, Jacob reaches out and pats them both on their shoulders at the same time. He then goes on to speak flawless Korean and mows down the shrimp cocktail (deleted scene).
* Jacob hands Jack his Apollo bar and holds it just a second too long, lingering enough so that their fingers touch. Jack responds with a creepy stare.
* And with Hurley, Jacob reaches over the guitar case and touches him pointedly as he explains about flight 316.
Only in the meeting with Illana does Jacob not touch her. But we can't see his hands, and he does lean in really close to her... so it still might've happened. Then again, Illana wasn't a passenger on flight 815 as the others were, and seemed more of Jacob's agent. Touching her didn't seem as important.
So, why does Jacob touch each character at some point in their past? I'll bet it's got something to do with knowing (and reading) their thoughts, their memories, and their lives. Remember all those crazy coincidences between everyone all throughout LOST? Duplicate places, people, objects we've seen over and over again, like MaCutcheon's whisky? My theory has always been that the island's (or Jacob's) knowledge consists only of a finite amount of these things. What if it obtained these images and memories by reaching out and touching these characters, absorbing the major events in their lives, kind of like the way the smoke monster can scan people in it's own special way? There you go.
In retrospect, it does seem that Jacob's showing some genuine compassion for each of these people when he meets them. I totally believed him as he apologetically told Locke "I'm sorry this happened to you". He seemed concerned for Sawyer, and genuinely happy for Sun and Jin. Maybe he even visited Sayid at the exact moment he would've crossed the street and gotten killed, effectively saving him from being buried along with Nadia. And maybe Sayid dies from the gunshot wound he receives this episode because course correction puts him back where he belongs? Let's hope not.
The Jacob scenes were all good, but the most vital one by far was his visit with Hurley. Here, Jacob takes the time to actually speak with Hugo. He convinces him that he's not crazy, which is all-important to getting Hurley back on the plane. It's probably the one thing he needed to hear, and leaving him that guitar case to remind him of Charlie was probably another great motivator in Hugo boarding that flight. What's in it is another story.
I believe Hurley is the most special character on LOST when it comes to ultimately changing the game. He's the dark man's nightmare: someone who's totally above judgment. Hugo is the one pure, good, innocent and untarnished person lost in a sea of people who did some really bad shit. Nothing can ever corrupt him: not even the tremendous amounts of money or power associated with winning the lottery. Hugo's untouchable, and Jacob knows it. He allows Hurley make his own decision, and his decision was to come back to the island.
The Drive Shaft Ring Scene
Totally cool. Classy and awesome. Just watching Sun picking that thing up flooded my head with memories of all the old characters we don't even realize how much we miss anymore.
Didn't Y'all Hear Meet at the Creek?
Rose, Bernard, Vincent! I didn't think I'd be all that happy to see them, but this scene was so totally cool. For about five minutes, it broke up all the seriousness and tension building up during the other two hours of the show. And wow, it sure looks like Bernard got into the canned goods.
Now Rose hasn't had all that many lines in LOST, but when she does speak it's usually something filled with wisdom or purpose. So as Sawyer and the she-commandos burst onto the scenes with pistols and rifles ready, Rose echoes some of the very thoughts the dark man brings up in the opening scene this episode by telling them "It's always something with you people".
Rose and Bernard have retired, which is an interesting way to phrase it. If the island were a great big bunch of kids all playing tag, it's like these two kids just quit in the middle of the game and went off to do something else. They don't care about bombs, guns, or flying through time - all they want is to chill out and enjoy each other. This might be their own personal redemption; to stop running around looking for the next best thing and finally just smell the roses.
In the cool, coy way they seemed to regard Sawyer, Kate, and Juliet... it almost seemed to me as if they knew something the other three didn't. This was magnified when Bernard stops Juliet on the way out of camp: "Are you sure you don't want to stay for some tea?" Call it foreshadowing, sixth sense, whatever you want... I got the impression Bernard somehow knew Juliet should've stayed for tea. But sadly she didn't.
There's No Shortage of Klaxon Horns in Dharma
Seriously, they're everywhere. And just look at Radzinski: I haven't seen anyone this hellbent on drilling a hole since Armageddon. WTF did he think was gonna happen when he hit that pocket? Dumbass.
Well it Was a Long Time Coming...
Finally, we get to see the knockdown drag-out fight between Sawyer and Jack. As with past Locke/Jack battles, one of them takes the logical road and the other is pushing destiny down everyone's throat like a furious drug dealer. Jack's on the complete opposite side of his past arguments now, and Sawyer's on the opposite side of his past responsibilities. Both of them make good points, but as is often the case with LOST, it's nearly impossible to know which side is right and which is wrong.
Sawyer's "Think you can do whatever the hell you want?" line refers directly to Jack messing up his cozy Dharma lifestyle, but it also steps on the toes of free will. Jack's response is equivalent to "Hey, if I'm not supposed to do this then something will stop me". They beat the snot out of each other here, and I'm pretty sure the makeup department had to borrow some fake blood from the set of the Twilight sequel next door.
Juliet's flashback interrupts this scene, where she learns that sometimes two people love each other but aren't meant to be together... just like her and Sawyer. Suddenly everything's clear to her on this subject. I'd wondered why Juliet had the only flashback that didn't include Jacob, but that's because she wasn't ever necessary to the island's whole plan. She was someone Ben brought in for his own purposes only, and never really place in the grand scheme of things. More lost than anyone, really.
Sawyer's freakout at her sudden flip-flop to Jack's side of the argument is squashed when Juliet tells him "I saw the way you looked at her". Sure enough, she caught the glance Sawyer gave Kate back at Rose & Bernard's condo. Knowing they probably weren't meant to be together is one thing, but realizing they couldn't be together forever is another. At this point, Juliet realizes she'd rather go back to living an Other life - without ever having known Sawyer - rather than suffer the pain of losing him.
Holy Shit He Really Beat The Crap Out of You!
This line was cut from the original script, but it's probably what Kate was thinking. In a direct parallel of their first scene ever, Kate's cleaning Jack up. He pulls the Aaron and Claire cards from his sleeve, and asks her to trust him. Suddenly he talks a good game, and Jack's pretty convincing here.
I'd wondered why we got to see a flashback where his dad actually gave him a timeout, but what Christian was trying to do was instill Jack with a firm belief in himself. The lesson here was to forget about what everyone else was thinking and concentrate on your own beliefs and abilities. Jack uses this confidence to win Kate over. He somehow knows what he's doing is right. He makes her realize that if she truly did come back for Aaron, this is the only way to help Claire. Kate searches her feelings and agrees with him: all or nothing.
And the "See you in Los Angeles" line was GREAT.
Nothing Can Save Me...
Sayid, close to death - close to unconsciousness... it's only then that he realizes he can never be saved. It doesn't really matter what Jack does, the sum of Sayid's past sins is just too great. Even if he makes it, he can never atone.
The Incident
It was everything it needed to be, and it completely exceeded my expectations. The incident was a total clusterfuck for Dharma, for the 815'ers, and for the sanity of LOST fans everywhere who have to endure a *very* long eight or nine months of not knowing exactly what happened. But they did it up right! They made it awesome.
Did whatever happened happen again? Or did things change? There's no definitive answer here. Until we see what happens in the opening scene of next season, you could easily make arguments for both sides. Jack and company definitely accomplished Dan's goal: to detonate the bomb as close to the magnetic pocket as possible. But was that a big enough boulder to make changes in the great river of time?
Personally, I think so. Although Miles made a good argument that perhaps the 815'ers showing up with the bomb is what actually *causes* the incident, it's pretty obvious that there was going to be an "incident" no matter what. Nobody was going to stop Radzinsky from drilling - apparently not even Chang physically shutting the drill off. They were going to break through to that pocket - gunfight or not. Everything metal got sucked into that hole, jeeps and everything, and that was going to happen even if Jack's crew was drinking tea back at the swing set.
Chang lost his arm, just like we knew he would. Radzinski lived. Phil got what was coming to him. Bad stuff went down. But it was only after all of this had already happened that we saw Juliet set off the nuke by banging it with a rock. THIS could be the thing that changes everything... including the LOST logo, which for 100+ episodes has always been white on black, but is suddenly reversed to black on white. Hmmm.
Now of course you could argue that the nuke itself was always part of the original incident. Maybe this is why so much cement is poured on top of the Swan site. Maybe this is why the area gets quarantined, and everyone stationed there gets fancy yellow suits. Maybe this is why Desmond needs to inject himself with serum every time he wakes up to Mama Cass. All decent arguments.
However (and I'm definitely not an expert), I'm thinking the detonation of an atomic warhead would cause the following big problems:
1) Everyone would be thoroughly and completely dead.
2) The whole area would be a molten mess.
3) Radiation at the site would be deadly for a really long time.
To me, if that bomb went off things are looking pretty grim for Radzinsky, Chang, and the future of half the island. I can't see a way around that. I'm guessing that the whole plan to change things might've finally worked... something happened to create ripples way too big for even course correction to overcome. But again, that's me.
No matter what happened here, it leaves us with tremendous questions regarding our main characters. What the hell happens next?
I think we can safely rule out everyone being dead. As great as Ben, Richard, Locke and Sun might be, they can't carry the show. And while the possibility of them all landing safely in LAX sounds plausible, I don't know how it could fit into the storyline with a whole season left to go.
Could they wake up on the beach just after the crash, at the beginning of the show... but retaining all their current memories? I love this idea. But I also don't think this type of result is doable from a production standpoint. It would require Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Michael, and a very young Walt. Can't see this happening.
The most likely possibility is that our main characters wake up on the island in 2007. Maybe the release of magnetic energy flashes them back to current time a split second before they're evaporated. If so, who goes? Just the people from 815? Wouldn't Juliet go too? Rose, Bernard, Vincent? Big questions.
Finally, let's consider this scenario: the bomb never went off. The flash we saw was just like all the other flashes, spinning everyone through time. Maybe the drill broke into the pocket just before Juliet could detonate the nuke (in which case maybe she's still alive). This would be a pretty big lie to carry on for eight or nine months, but I could totally see them doing it. ;)
He Who Will Protect Us All
Halfway through the episode I was pretty sure I knew what was in the box... and it was exactly what I thought it was. The major death this episode was John Locke, a man who died the same way he lived - completely bamboozled by someone he trusted.
But was Locke really nothing special, as Richie Ricardus would have us believe? Or do remnants of Locke's consciousness still remain within the form currently being inhabited by the dark man/smoke monster? If so, they didn't get there on the ride back on Ajira. Locke was dead as a doornail by then, and so was his mind.
Although he's dead, I'm pretty sure we're going to see lots of Locke next season. Knowing he's someone else - and only someone else - would put a pretty negative spin on his character for a lot of people. This is why I think there's a lot of John Locke still left inside that person in the now green shirt. And maybe it even got put there by Jacob. Just speculation here, but Jacob did touch each and every one of the characters he visited... but he touched Locke in an extra special way. Maybe he took something from him when he did that - and that's all I've got to say on this subject before someone gets all Search for Spock on me.
Jacob... Disrespecting Benjamin Linus for 35 Years And Counting
The final scene of the present-day storyline was every bit the incredible confrontation it needed to be. Jacob recognized immediately who had come for him. He looked saddened, not scared - expressing a form of pity instead of fear. His arch nemesis goes on to tell describe the incredible amounts of trouble he had to go through to arrive at this moment, and Jacob looks stoic as his adversary savors what finally looks to be victory.
It was surprising to me how fast Ben's role in everything was reduced to nothing more than a tool needed to commit murder. Sure, it's the murder of a demi-god... but I still thought Ben would've seen something like this coming. Instead, he didn't. The dark man used Ben as his very own dagger, finally using his long-sought after loophole to plunge Ben's knife deep into Jacob's heart. And Jacob just stood there and took it.
We've finally seen the entirety of Ben's character - from his beginnings as an innocent kid to the calculating, quick-thinking liar who ruled the island as an adult for so many years. In the end however, his emotions are reduced quickly back to that of a needy child, one looking only for some type parental recognition. Jacob never acknowledged Ben... whether he refused to do this or simply couldn't we really can't say. What we do know is the complete absence of Jacob caused a void in Ben's life, one that got filled with hatred and vengeance once Alex was killed. These fires were further stoked by his banishment after thankless years of obedient service.
At the exact moment Ben stands before Jacob, all he wants is that recognition. All he needs is a little attention from the person he so faithfully and blindly served for so many years. But Jacob offered him none. And as Ben closed on him, Jacob offered no resistance. There were probably a hundred things he could've said to ease Ben's 35 years of pain, maybe even explain some things to him. Instead, Jacob actually egged Ben on by answering his servant's query with his own sardonic version of the same question: "What ABOUT you?"
This triggers kill-crazy Ben, the same unstoppable force we saw in Keamy's last moments of life. Jacob knew this. He knew those words would elicit Ben's killing response, and he stood there and took each blow of Ben's knife without trying to stop it or fight him off. The smoke monster couldn't kill Jacob directly, but instead provided Ben with a weapon, a motive, and a confrontation with his enemy. This was his loophole. Ben kills Jacob by choice, but I also believe that Jacob chooses to die here.
In short, I think Jacob has a plan. That plan has something to do with Illana and the shadow-statue people. It might also have something to do with Illana's mention of Frank possibly being a 'candidate'. While I'm not exactly sure how he'll survive, I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of Jacob. I can't help but keep thinking about the ending to the movie Legend. Darkness needs light, light needs darkness. One cannot exist without the other - it's both poetic and cool.
Guys, Gals... it's been real. This season was my favorite one. The story's circle is closing, and I love where the writers are going with it. I've enjoyed all these weeks writing this stuff, reading your own thoughts and ideas, and talking about LOST with everyone. I know I've promised this before, but I'll try really hard to be around in the off-season. This is our last hiatus. It's going to be the longest, and possibly the worst, but we'll stick it out together.
As always, here's wishing everyone an ass-kicking summer!
-Vozz


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hatebox
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Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:17:00 PM
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The ODI
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joselyn
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Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:37:00 PM
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When Sawyer Tells Kate Shut Up S1E8
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Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:43:00 PM
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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 326 Newer› Newest»This is going to get ugly..
What Lies in the Shadow of the Statue? Red SnapperLOL...actually "red herring" ;)
interesting that it is orange as well :p
Season five can't touch 1 or 4, but it was very good. I do agree that this was the best episode ever.
love the super duper long post! you rock!
Is it possible that Libby was a messenger of Jacob? She had interactions with both Hurley and Desmond.... pivotal characters.
I can't wait to figure out: Jacob - good or bad? I think good. But you know how they like to toy with us.
This is summarized from a theory I saw elsewhere, but totally makes sense to me (and got lost on page 4815162342 of the other comments page).
S2 finale: Locke stops the button-pushing, a huge electromagnetic event begins, metal stuff is crashing towards the EM source, Des runs to the failsafe key, turns it, white light flashes, he time-travels a bit, undergoes a rebirth of sorts, and is back to where he started, while all of the others who were in the Swan survive.
remember Vozz's theory that S1 || S6, S2:S5, S3:S4?
S5 finale: The drill breaks into the EM pocket, a huge electromagnetic event begins, metal stuff is crashing towards the EM source, Juliet falls to the H-bomb, triggers it, white light flashes ... S6E1: Juliet reborn in the jungle? Everyone nearby also survived, and the Losties are back in 2007 where they belong?
What I noticed in this was that both this Swan event and the S2 Swan event involved a two-part event: first EM catastrophe, then "something else" which countered the explosion and kind of neutralized the impending island-destroying (world-ending?) disaster. Could it be that after the 1977 Swan event, Chang insisted on putting another bomb down under the Swan, triggered by the failsafe key, that would be used to neutralize the event should it ever happen again? (due to failed button-pushing)
(Keep in mind that this is not a full thermonuclear device that fell down the shaft - only the core. It's the fission trigger, not the full fusion device.)
I see hope for Juliet yet. If only it weren't for her darn red shirt. :(
Great recap
"There's no definitive answer here. Until we see what happens in the opening scene of next season, you could easily make arguments for both sides."
Welcome to the fence
That was a terrific explanation of some very complicated ideas that were thrown at us last night. Thanks.
I have a question that maybe someone can clarify for me. If Sawyer, Jack et al, at the site of the incident are "flashed away" to another time by the explosion then how can Richard, truthfully, tell Sun that he saw them die? Was he lying? Was that a clue that perhaps they weren't immediately flashed away? Was it yet another weird dialogue quirk common to the show?
I know, it's a minor little detail considering the brain twisters we are expected to digest and make sense of in a mere 8 months but it stood out to me.
i VERY much like your analysis. just 2 points:
1) we should remember that this is a science FICTION show. hence the electro-magnetic properties of the place of the detonation (plus the fact that it happened some 70 feet under ground) could have greatly limited the explosion. what i say is that i believe that the explosion of the nuke was part of the incident.
2) it seems obvious that bringing in ben through "locke" is the loop-hole. i also perfectly agree that jacob saw this coming...maybe even had it planned. however it seems very unlikely to me that the back-shirt-guy couldn't find anybody willing to kill jacob (a guy who was living in the same place for ages going publicly fishing and stuff). i think what was the loop-hole is that he found somebody who killed with exactly those emotions that ben felt in that moment.
which leads me to a question: does anyone believe that what he have seen all these years is just one of the many games black and white play? does the game end when a condition is met (island destroyed?) so that it can start anew? in light of this: did jacob's visit in the past change something in a new game?
Thanks for the insightful recap. It helped me appreciate the many things about this episode that I liked and mitigate some of the stuff I really didn't. I agree that Hurley is special, mainly because at this moment, he seems to be to the only main character who is both very likely to still be alive and also be "himself", unlike so many others who had game changing events in this episode.
Voz...
Nice recap as always. Did you notice the exchange between Jack and Sawyer; that it mirrored the meeting that Jack and Ben had in the Season 3 finally? Ben asked Jack for 5 minutes and asked him to sit down. Sawyer did the same thing. Except this time Jack got the beat down. Pretty cool..
If you remember Locke's first encounter with the "monster" he says it was light, not dark.
If the smoke monster is Anti-Jacob, could the thing that Locke saw originally have been Jacob's true form?
If the H bomb was the incident all along, then it really couldn't have blown up, as the swan station continued to be built.
Pouring concrete would make sense as there is an undetonated H bomb around an electromagnetic energy so strong that protocol 108 is enacted so that the energy isnt enough to blow up the H bomb.
Half life of radioactive materials has to be taken into account here. if the hatch blowing up in s2 blew up the h bomb in concrete, sure desmond would be exposed to high doses of radiation and electro magnetism, but the amount of radiation would be significantly lower due to its half life.
Hmm. its intriguing stuff, but I just wish Juliette had decided to climb outta the hole and not hit a highly explosive and deadly device with a rock...
I don't think Jacob was "egging" Ben on or trying to get him to kill him. I think that Ben was reaching the end of a very Smeagol'y trial, and while he had moments of possible redemption, has chosen selfish vengeance. (Heck, he even *looks* like Gollum!)
Jacob answers the selfish question, "What about me?" with the observation that it is SO not about him. It's an important moment that is in line with several philosophical systems, religious or otherwise: Selflessness is the path to fulfillment, not selfishness. It's not about you. He answered with this truth, even knowing it would seal his doom.
It's hard to tell whether Jacob might turn out to be bad, but all his demeanor in this episode was of one who was simply going to do what had to be done even if it ultimately meant his death, and trying to accomplish it w/o interfering with the free exercise of the will by others.
I think its pretty clear that the statue is of Taweret as oppose to Anubis.
I don't agree with all of it, but who cares? It's fun.
One thing to point out: Jacob touched all of these people and potentially changed their destiny towards the island. At the end of the finale? It's Ben who is also touched, grasped even, and who looks stunned and shocked at his own actions, an expression he did NOT have with Keamy.
Quentin, it's Sobek. That was no fat naked hippo chick.
"It then uses ghost Christian to manipulate Locke into turning the wheel, where it knows/hopes Locke will be killed, while at the same time planting seeds in Locke's head that he'll need to die in order to come back".
I don´t buy that, Christian in that scene really looked and acted like himself, example when he tells John to say Hello to his son. You could say that Jacobs enemy had been working through Christian, so that Christian´s characteristics would shine through, but I don´t think that that is the case.
"In short, I think Jacob has a plan. That plan has something to do with Illana and the shadow-statue people. It might also have something to do with Illana's mention of Frank possibly being a 'candidate'. While I'm not exactly sure how he'll survive, I'm pretty sure we haven't seen the last of Jacob"
Don´t forget about the guitar case.
And also let´s all remember one thing, Ray is Sawyer!
I think your point about Locke and the smoke monster are dead on..I think we now know why Locke was one of the few people on the island to encounter the smoke monster and not get hurt. The whole scene with Ben and Alex makes perfect sense now. Thats why Locke was gone so long- because he was really smokey. Also, I think its fair to say that the monster contributed to the death of Alex in order for its master plan to work. And all these people that have visited the island- the Black Rock, the drug smuggler plane, the hot air balloon, Oceanic Flight 815, the freighter, Aijira Airways 316....they were all "summoned" by the smoke monster in order to find the loophole to kill Jacob. It'd be amazing if the whole show was truly about this battle between the smoke monster and Jacob, especially since we didn't even truly know who Jacob was until yesterday!
Palirath said...
If you remember Locke's first encounter with the "monster" he says it was light, not dark.
If the smoke monster is Anti-Jacob, could the thing that Locke saw originally have been Jacob's true form?
^^^Good point
Wanted to post before i even finished reading, which is typical Lost.
Great "things I've noticed" Vozz
See you in a later post Brotha
I agree the statue seems to be Sobek, who does have a Croc-Looking face, however in some weird way I think it is a hybrid of a few different gods.
Sobek did I believe merge with Ra at some point.
Very nice summary, Vozz!
2 very small points - I don't think the statue is Anubis. I agree with the above that it is either Taweret or Sobek. Also, it seems that Smokey is able to become dopplegangers of corpses that reside on the island. Think about it.. Yemi, Christian, Alex, and Locke. Smokey needed Locke's corpse returned to the island in order to create the loophole.
Anyway.. very good summary. Cheers!
I disagree that 'Esau' is Smokey [I think Smokey is a physical vessel that Jacob and MIB have hi-jacked throughout their lifetimes to carry out their own different agendas], but the rest was grand.
I don't see why the body of John Locke is there just to be 'proof' to 'Richard', I mean, unless, 'Esau' burns that body too in the S6 première... o-O
Here's a totally random question.....I haven't seen any posts anywhere discussing what the tapestry in the "foot" says on it. (Jacob is working on it at the beginning of the episode, and it's hanging on the wall when "Locke" and Ben enter the foot.) It looks almost to be a combo of Greek and heiroglyphics. Thoughts?
Great summation, by the way. My mouth was wide open throughout the episode, and I am really surprised that I didn't catch any flies!
The Jacob flashbacks actually occur in the future. He dies, finds his loophole and prevents the losties from getting on that plane.
xsx
I am curious if people are feeling more convinced, after last night's episode, if the Desmond storyline is done for good.
Great job. I especially like your analysis of the Jack/Kate discussion in which she changes her mind. Most others are saying she's a wimpy flip-flopper, but from what I saw last night, you hit the nail on the head.
smokey taking over bodies = why richard wanted to bury his dead OTHERS in 77?
i alo agree its more SOBEK or perhaps AMUN RA (wikipedia it) as the statue, not anubis (no way, too long a muzzle, not dog like AT ALL)
good recap, as always.
Vozz, this has been my favorite recap of yours so far. I've been a loyal reader for a long time now. Thank you SO MUCH for doing these!!
I agree with your thoughts on Hurley. He's one of my favorite characters.
long time reader, first time commentator. love your analysis. first thing i look at after watching the show. If a major newspaper doesn't pick you up as some kind of TV cirtic then its print's loss and the bloggers gain. keep up the good work.
please keep up some kind of monthly interpetation of previous seasons just to keep us all hooked on your theories?
I also wonder if we're somehow being set up for Charlie to come back to the show. With Jacob giving Hurley the guitar case and emphatically and enigmatically telling him it wasn't his, with Sun finding the DS ring, and with the show really coming full circle to focus mainly on those people remaining from the original cast, it just feels like it fits in some way to bring him back somehow. Especially since we know Claire is supposed to return, too, in Season 6.
Oh, forget to mention up there, but I believe that Smokey is the neutral force, Jacob is light and 'Esau' the dark.
And finally, in the guitar case is a GUITAR people! Occam's Razor - lean it, use it, done. It was most likely one of Charlie's too [what else would have such a strong effect on Hurley and guide him back? It's not like he knew Libby long, or at all...]
It is definitely Sobek, not Anubis. It has the head of the croc with the short ears not long like Anubis, and is holding the male symbols in his hand like Sobek does in paintings of him
vozz. right after the epp ended i told my lady. I bet season 6 starts the way season 1 started with Jack opening his eye back in the jungle, but this time with knowledge of what happened. I think the guitar case was Jacobs loophole some how.
Also something that sawyer says to jack peaked my spidy sence. He says what did you do so bad "THIS TIME AROUND" to make you want to set off a nuke. This maybe nothing but it seems to me that somewhere deep in there minds they know this has all been happening over and over.
Any Dark Tower fans here? Rolland is doomed to repeat his life over and over because he is so stuck in his ways that he can not stop this endless cycle of pain.
Vozz -
Nicely done. While I do not quite share your enthusiasm for how good the season finale was, I was disappointed with a few things, I do agree this leads us into the "promised land" of season 6.
You stated "In the cool, coy way they seemed to regard Sawyer, Kate, and Juliet... it almost seemed to me as if they knew something the other three didn't. This was magnified when Bernard stops Juliet on the way out of camp: "Are you sure you don't want to stay for some tea?" Call it foreshadowing, sixth sense, whatever you want... I got the impression Bernard somehow knew Juliet should've stayed for tea. But sadly she didn't."
I noticed that when Bernard offers Juliet the tea, she touched her stomach, my wife and I at the same time said, she's pregnant with Sawyer's kid, and Bernard knows it. We thought that Rose and Bernard wanted her to stay to try and save her. But as you stated, sadly, she did not.
Thanks for another season of thought provoking theories, recaps, ideas, and insights.
Lovely post, I'm trying to work out the big mysteries not solved, but after reading your thoughts I wonder if we experienced a 'if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you imagine' kind of scene with Jacob?
I was also quite psyched to see the temple in this episode, to no avail. But I think you are right, there are 'innocents' in the game that don't play. I am guessing they are all protected in the temple and only come out for other judging exercises and branding and tattoo translations. The innocent bit may have extended to Walt, who remains a real problem, unless he was smokey all along and not ever a player (post leaving the island). Rose and Bernard could be seen as innocent as Hurley, but don't seem to be players either. There should be some other clues I missed, but there are too many gaps, apparently we have to wait for next year, unless comicon has more reveals. Also interesting that Lindelof gave us the 'touching' clue on the EW show, a nice tipoff for the fans, don't you think?
A most enjoyable read as always Vozz. You do an excellent job explaining your thoughts. Thanks again for another year of great writing.
one more thing: now that we know that locke 2.0 is an imposter, why did he/it tell cesar (?) "that's the man who killed me" (about ben) earlier this season? seems a bit careless to me...
Vozzek, you rock!
Thanks for your insight and intriguing ideas. You always make me think.
PS. Please write a letter to Darlton explaining why Juliet should live and be back as a full time cast member for season 6. They can't dare disagree with your logic!
Great recap as usual.
I agree with you on Hurley, especially after Jacob said he was "blessed."
There's one problem: Hurley's hands aren't totally clean.
He drove a Dharma van right over one of the Others, killing him. True, he was saving his friends, but Murder is Murder.
There are several on "Lost" who haven't killed someone, but Hurley isn't one of 'em.
question what was cindy there 2 watch is this all gone now
one more thing: now that we know that locke 2.0 is an imposter, why did he/it tell cesar (?) "that's the man who killed me" (about ben) earlier this season? seems a bit careless to me...The only thing I can think is is that 'Evil Lokce' did that in order to make Caesar think that he was as barmy as that statement sounded, which further helped Ben manipulate him into thinking that 'Evil Locke' was dangerous / unstable, enabling Ben to do his deed and fire Caesar's own shotgun back at him. He was just another pawn.
Has anyone addressed THIS QUESTION yet:
When we see the incident occurring, does not the whole seen mirror the Smoke Monster? That is, listen to the noises going on- the same chains and levers sounds that sometimes accompany Smokey. That, and obviously, Juliet being pulled down the shaft. Now my memory just might be shot right now, but have we even seen Smokey at this point in the past? That is, in the 70s? Or could it be that THIS is how Smokey was made???
I don't think Locke is smokey. Locke in 2007 don't known that Ben seen Alex in the templeish place. If he was smokey he should remember talking to Ben as Alex.
Yeah.... Jack TOTALLY thought he was being hit on by a gay guy. That was funny.
Something I noticed...... Young Locke had drawn that picture of the smoke monster attacking someone.... hmmmmm....
i thought lockes being alive wouldve made sense, considering christian shephard could still be alive and he, too, came to the island in a coffin. unfortunately, last nights episode proved that wrong. HOWEVER, i KNOW that jacob isnt dead. he can apparentl bring a man back to life, keep another man from aging, and seems to have control of this island, so no way he could have died. Also, locke and jacob seem to have a good and evil version of themselves. lockes good version mightve died, however maybe it was his evil version. same goes for jacob, because i remember he had some connection with the smoke monster and he could hav been the evil, or good version. we'll just have to see.
cool, if same thing happens to Juliet as with Desmond, we will get to see her naked in the jungle
Chosenoneknuckles said...
Oh, forget to mention up there, but I believe that Smokey is the neutral force, Jacob is light and 'Esau' the dark.
I agree with this. I believe "locke" was genuinely surprised at Ben's discussion about his encounter with "alex". If esau/locke/dark is smokey, he would have known about this encounter.
Has anyone addressed THIS QUESTION yet:
When we see the incident occurring, does not the whole seen mirror the Smoke Monster? That is, listen to the noises going on- the same chains and levers sounds that sometimes accompany Smokey. That, and obviously, Juliet being pulled down the shaft. Now my memory just might be shot right now, but have we even seen Smokey at this point in the past? That is, in the 70s? Or could it be that THIS is how Smokey was made???Hmm, so all that crap down there is pretty much compressed so much due to the electromagnetism [with a spark of something Island-ish] that it becomes... Smokey?
I can't think of anythin else intelligent on that matter, it's wayyy beyond science and straight into a mesh of it and fantasy - so I'd love to hear Vozzek69's response to that!
Until now, I've thought this was the best episode of Lost ever.. but now I think it's kind of eh. I mean, all the previous season finales had HUGE cliffhangers, leaving us bewildered, and I feel that many of us had anticipated this year's end... I'm disappointed. The best part was the fade to white
Vozz, thank you for taking the time to put together such great recaps. Awesome as usual.
One question- Why doesn't Smokie-Locke know where Jacob is residing? Did he forget about the fish picnic?
Great job. I think we all need to be studying our Bibles in the next 8 months. Jacob and Esau. Jacob touched all six oceanic members in the flashbacks plus Ilyeana brought 6 with her=12 tribes of Jacob? Anyone know where I can find more in depth biblical references in Lost?
Chosenoneknuckles said...
Oh, forget to mention up there, but I believe that Smokey is the neutral force, Jacob is light and 'Esau' the dark.
I agree with this. I believe "locke" was genuinely surprised at Ben's discussion about his encounter with "alex". If esau/locke/dark is smokey, he would have known about this encounter.Indeedy.
Also, more fuel for Smokey not being Esau, why did Locke say this back in season 1 after encounetring it:
'I looked into the heart of the island and what I saw was beautiful'
I don't think he'd say that about Smokey as we've seen it, could you...? It gave me a 'gentle giant' like impression, for some reason.
And also, Smokey could've slaughtered Kate and Juliet back in 'Left Behind', but all it did was take photos? Could there be some link between that, the Jacob touching and the 'interesting' perceptions of the Losties memories?
Perhaps Jacob was preserving/blessing/protecting them all somehow by doing a combination of that, for something in the future [like at the end of The Incident]?
"Hmm, so all that crap down there is pretty much compressed so much due to the electromagnetism [with a spark of something Island-ish] that it becomes... Smokey? "
Yesssss!!! Juliet is smokey like the end of Superman III with that crazy robot woman. The first chronological appearance was with Rousseau which was after the Incident, or am I wrong?
And Voz, the very first scene on the beach is our best example of any answer to the question posed since season 1, 'What the f is going on?' Is it not? Im talking Theory of Everything type answer
"or am I wrong?"
Im wrong - damn those hieroglyphics
I don't think the statue of the God is Anubis, as theorized. It appears to have the head of a hippopotamus, which would make it Tawaret, the Goddess who protects women through pregnancy and childbirth. Interesting, considering the difficulties the women experienced with that issue on the island. Did they somehow offend the Goddess, thus the punishment?
Oh, and last titbit. I wonder if Juliet's ankh symbol on her back might count as being 'touched' by Jacob?
[Or are we not assuming that the statue has anything to do with Jacob at all? I haven't looked much into it's real life depiction of Egyptian god/desses yet tbh, so pardon me if I sound like a newbie...]
Did anyone else think it was odd that Juliet's flashback seemed to be in modern times? Her parents clothes and home looked current as opposed to in the 70's when Juliet would be that age. p.s. Kick ass recap. Best episode ever.
Final, final titbit - anyone else love the rearranged 'Bobbin' for Freighters' theme from the Season 4 finale in the final gun shootout down at the Swan site? I know I did, it got me so rived up! xD
Vozz- Its great reading your recaps. Give me your take on the book Jacob was reading. "Everything That Rises Must Converge" by Flannery O'Connor. As a recovering Catholic, it was required reading and discussion. In general,the title of the story refers to the philosophy of a Jesuit theologian, Pierre de Chardin. Pierre offers a the Catholic version of the science of evolution, he explains that the lower life forms evolved toward greater diversity and complexity, rising to the level of man, who exists at the midpoint between animal life and God. Evolution continues but only on at spiritual level.
See the similarities?
In my opinion, the ending of Lost, will echo the beginning of the episode...will man evolve?
Look forward to your (or anyone's) thoughts.
Great recap. Great episode. Now the story moves quickly toward its conclusion.
Bomb or no bomb, the writers have said that the losties will return to the present. I believe them. So who are we left with exactly?
Jack. Sawyer. Kate. Hurley. Sun. Jin. Miles. (maybe Sayid and/or Juliet)
Doesn't quite seem like enough to carry a season , does it? What is left to tell about these characters unless they have an opportunity to reconcile with the past....
Even with new characters like Jacob, the dark Locke and presumably more on Richard, Ilana and Bram?
Ben seems to be pretty much played out. He may stick around but as window dressing?
Sayid maybe dead. Juliet maybe dead.
Bernard, Rose, Penny and Desmond seem to have taken a bow and moved on to happily ever after. Once Sun and Jin are reunited they could follow suit.
We were promised that Clare would return...but as what? She and Christian aren't too interesting if they are zombies
Who does that leave. Charlie and the other ghosts..... Ana. Libby. Widmore. Ellie.
If you think about who is left and who isn't, an argument can be made that something happens in the incident to bring some folks back to life....or at least to become fully present as themselves for a while.
I am just guessing but I don't think the cast of characters left standing cuts it. We some resurrections and rebirths.
Excellent recap. The one thing that was missed was Jack put Christian's shoes on John. Those shoes were the key to Esau's transferring into John after he died.
What a disaster has become the series LOST...I mean are the producers for real with the kind of crap they been throwing in the last episodes?? Sayid shooting Ben in the 70´s? Hurley working for Dharma? I think the producers lost it totally, they keep making lame twists to fix it but they keep digging and digging into a huge hole and now its impossible to get out...I think JJ Abrahams should write a book on HOW TO F*CK UP THE BEST TV SERIES EVER IN JUST 2 SEASONS, he manage to accomplish that..Whats up with the SCI-FI crap, having entire episodes boring as hell... I also feel ripped off, when they moved the island they fucked up eveerything... I also want to point out that the last episode of season 3 with Jack and Kate in the first flash foward is the best ending of a series till today with the highest ratings registered... and now look what that fascinating serie turn out to be...I hope they end the show this season, there is no need to drag another season since its obvious what the ending will be, nothing ever happened...the oceanic flight 815 will land in Los Angeles and nothing happened...thanks JJ Abrahams, u are a f****** genious!
This was the most boring episode ever!!! after 5 seasons... suddenly jacob appears in jacks life, hugos life, kates life, lockes life, etc... what the f*** is that about??
What a character was Ben in season 2 now... he is a f****ing loser!!!! Sawyer too!!! There are to many new characters that have nothing to do with the series to much BS.... For me this season was the worst season ever... I just want to say that I FEEL RIP OFF WITH AL THIS SCI-FI BS!!!!!
I hope that there is someone that agrees with me... Because if you dont feel Rip off like me with this sci-fi bs... after seeing 5 seasons and you realize this show is sci-fi...!!! Please I hope in this site someone is for real!!!
Regards!!What a disaster has become the series LOST...I mean are the producers for real with the kind of crap they been throwing in the last episodes?? Sayid shooting Ben in the 70´s? Hurley working for Dharma? I think the producers lost it totally, they keep making lame twists to fix it but they keep digging and digging into a huge hole and now its impossible to get out...I think JJ Abrahams should write a book on HOW TO F*CK UP THE BEST TV SERIES EVER IN JUST 2 SEASONS, he manage to accomplish that..Whats up with the SCI-FI crap, having entire episodes boring as hell... I also feel ripped off, when they moved the island they fucked up eveerything... I also want to point out that the last episode of season 3 with Jack and Kate in the first flash foward is the best ending of a series till today with the highest ratings registered... and now look what that fascinating serie turn out to be...I hope they end the show this season, there is no need to drag another season since its obvious what the ending will be, nothing ever happened...the oceanic flight 815 will land in Los Angeles and nothing happened...thanks JJ Abrahams, u are a f****** genious!
This was the most boring episode ever!!! after 5 seasons... suddenly jacob appears in jacks life, hugos life, kates life, lockes life, etc... what the f*** is that about??
What a character was Ben in season 2 now... he is a f****ing loser!!!! Sawyer too!!! There are to many new characters that have nothing to do with the series to much BS.... For me this season was the worst season ever... I just want to say that I FEEL RIP OFF WITH AL THIS SCI-FI BS!!!!!
I hope that there is someone that agrees with me... Because if you dont feel Rip off like me with this sci-fi bs... after seeing 5 seasons and you realize this show is sci-fi...!!! Please I hope in this site someone is for real!!!
Regards and think about it and be honest with your self!!
I hated the finale, but I hated it a little less after reading your recap.
The finale felt a little Odd Coupleish to me -- it's not about the Losties, but about these two dudes who are stuck together and want out. The complete opposite of Rose and Bernard.
Not sold on anything changing with the Incident. Definitely not sold on the Losties flashing to the future with the nuke blast. S6 could easily be Dharma/Others - The Eighties! The series finale, The Purge. The last shot of the series? Jack's stupid eye.
In fact, I got an impression that next year's finale will be exactly like this one. Maybe the LOST background will turn to red, like the heiroglyphs on the Swan station's countdown timer, but then we'll still see Jack's eye.
This is the first time I recall HOPING Jack will be the hero and kick the island's ass. Egads, I'm pinning my hopes on Jack.
when you say that fake Locke didn't know where to find Jacob, that's not true, he just had to act that way so Ben would play along.
Sobek, he helps the dead and tries to undue evil. While he himself is potentially deadly lurking t the waters edge. A crocodile.
Smokey is Anubis weighing the souls of the dead.
>>>>>>>>>>>damnbueno
Hurley is innocent of that death. It is not a sin to kill the opponent during a war. Hurley followed this rule, and that's why he was mad at Sawyer for killing Tom. Hurley says, "but he surrendered!".
Did anyone get any flashbacks to several Star Wars movies in the last 15 min of the finale? There's Darth Chang having his hand maimed and his estranged son carrying him away while things are falling down around them as if they're being thrown around by the Force. There's Jacob, dressed in white, accepting his fate and not resisting, Obi-Wan-style, when his pupil Ben cuts him down without hesitation. Even the notion of Jack having to carry a "missile" and send it down the shaft of a well guarded "station" -- talk about familiar.
Right near the end when he and everyone else pause before he lets go of the detonator, you can almost hear Alec Guiness saying behind him, "Use the force, Jack."
I think it's pretty obvious that Juliet was the variable. She was never meant to be on the island - she was brought there by Ben. That's why her flashback was the only one without Jacob. The bomb couldn't go off because "whatever happened, happened" BUT "whatever happened" has always been influenced by Jacob. He has no control over Juliet, and she was the only person who could change things.
More on characters:
I just realized that Jack. Sawyer. Kate. Hurley. Sun. Jin. Sayid. (and Locke) were all touched by Jacob.
I would say that they will definitely return. (red shirt bit the dust)
Miles was born on the island. Was recruited by Bram once. Will probably join the Shadow of the Statute Others.
No clue to Lapides....
iles was born on the island. Was recruited by Bram once. Will probably join the Shadow of the Statute Others.
Am I the only one that figured that alike with Rose and Bernard, that Miles will be staying in the past, because he WANTS to [why would he wanna go with them exactly?]
I'm liking those thoughts on Juliet, jenspends, though that sends vibes of 815 landing in LAX opening up the S6 première though me, again...
Voz, your recaps are the best. I read alot of recaps but no one makes me think/laugh as much as you. This recap of "The Incident" may be your best work yet. No shit, you made sense of alot of complicated ideas and I think your right about 90% of the stuff you said. I'm not going to offer any theories of my own basically because I trust in other people to make better assumptions. So I just wanted to thank you and let you know that your work is greatly appreciated.
Think about it...two things took place in the finale: Juliet changed things (at least that's my theory) AND Jacob has been killed. So the plane can land in LA if it wants, but that does not mean the Losties will be on it. Why would they be? Jacob won't be around to influence them, and the dark guy (Smokey?) will have no reason to. I don't think it was ever a coincidence that they all ended up on the same plane.
Dean said...
"The Jacob flashbacks actually occur in the future. He dies, finds his loophole and prevents the losties from getting on that plane."
That's a really good point, and I think you might be on to something. However, I don't think he was preventing ALL of the losties form getting on that plane. Jacob's actions served to influence Jack, Hurley, Sayid, and Sun to come back to the island, but there is an outlier here: KATE. Jacob told Kate NOT to steal/lie, which is what inevitably brought her to the island in the end. I think that this may be the one key flashback that shows that Jacob did this in hindsight of being killed at the end.
Also, even though I thought the opposite after viewing the episode last night but was just influenced by Dean's point, I think that The Incident WAS caused/worsened by the bomb, and here is why:
-If Kate wasn't on the island, Jack wouldn't have the motivation to set off the bomb to "forget" her
-If Kate wasn't on the island, Sawyer wouldn't have fallen in love with her and given her the "look" at Rose/Bernard's cabin that influenced Juliet to set off the bomb
-Given what is above, Jack put the bomb down the hole, and Juliet set it off, so it makes sense
-If Kate wasn't on the island, Sayid still would have shot Ben, but Ben would have never been rescued by being brought to the Others. Jin would have still found wounded Ben, but Kate was key in the survival, not him. If Ben was dead, he couldn't have killed Jacob in the end.
This does rely on the fact that Jacob can move back and forth through time, manipulating the past to "change the game" to have events play out perfectly. I don't think he wanted Ben to stab him, but it seems like he was calm and wasn't surprised about it, and knew what he would have to do to correct it.
There are a lot of guesses here, but Kate's flashback with Jacob was very confusing to me and stood out from the others, and her presence seems to have caused so much to happen in the last episode to contribute to the bomb going off, and also during the rest of the season, to ensure Ben's survival.
Jacob and his enemy seem to live an eternal loop.
Things happen always the same way. They know how it will end.They say to each other back in 1800’s while staring at the ship:
“They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same.”
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that, it’s just progress.” -Jacob.
What Jacob means is that the ending is always the same, changeproof.In their timeloop, Jacob doesnt die, so the man can kill him.
In order to change things, there has to be a flaw on the loop. And that is what that man tried to create.He manipulated people and destinies. He was probably the spirit on the cabin with Ben and Locke, he could have been Christian, and finally he was Locke.
He tought he had changed things this time, so Jacob could end up dead. But i think Jacob knew he was wrong. Thats why he didnt offer any reaction to Ben. Instead he said fake locke: ”they are coming”.You are right BLF, he was referring to the losties in 77. He knew they were coming back to the start, to were it all begun. The loop had no hole! It was all the same as always. So, maybe Jacob wont really die.
But were will the losties go to? 2007? 2004? The preview for next season shows Jack opening his eyes ..like when both plane crashed
.
I think that yes there is a loop between Jacob and his nemesis, but just as "Esau" found a hole in the time loop, so did Jacob: the 1977 Oceanic people (i.e the people he touched). These people will come to the present for the final "war" between good and evil.
Which is why he needed Christian in the first place, good point Jason.
Some things I noticed myself.
1. When Claire appears to Kate when she is leaning over Aaron in bed, she tells Kate not to bring him back. For awhile we assumed this meant don't bring Aaron back, but what if Claire, acting on Jacob's behalf, was meaning Locke. Granted it's a very indirect warning, but it was probably the best she could do.
2. Now we know the signifigance of Miles and Hurley's abilities. They speak, hear, and commune with the dead, any "doppelganger" possessed by Jacob's nemesis, he can onl possess or take on the form of a dead person, will be known quickly to them that it's a fake.
3. I thought it was quite awesome justice, and perhaps karma that Sayid was shot by Roger Linus, in a way that redeemed everything that Roger'd ever done to Ben throughout.
4. The appearances of dead people and the Whispers, are we to now assume these were Jacob's nemesis manipulating the situations. If his realm of power lies in the dead and death, perhaps Jacob's lies in healing and life. I don't think all the encounters, like Hurley's and Claire appearing to Kate were Jacob's nemesis' doing, I think perhaps Jacob can use visions as well. But it seems like Nemesis can actually -become- them.
5. The character development of Locke and Ben has been so huge, to portray Locke as this identity-less man who is seeking himself throughout the whole show, creating his own specialness out of nothing, in the end dying and simply being used as a puppet for evil is one of the most interesting and powerful characters i've ever seen in lit and on film. he is the ultimate existential man, something out of nothing, his name (as I hypothesized from the beginning) was a clue all along. He was merely a blank slate, always trying to be something more. And that is what destroyed him. Both a tragic, and hopefully in the end redeemed character, maybe only in death though...
Ben is another picture. He was ruined even before the Losties (following the machinations of the Nemesis) got to him. He reacted to his father's ways with hate and bitterness. When he followed his dead mother (nemesis?) into the woods he meets Richard. Could this have been a false Richard? I think perhaps the change of clothes and style leans in that direction. But then again Richard did know him, and pretended that Jacob had told him to help him...(what if Jacob DID? What if he was planning Ben's killing him all along. Long Con indeed) and Ben loses his innocence, becoming an Other, a Hostile, I think it's interesting the usage of the words lose innocence, almost as if Richard knew what would become of Ben. Perhaps Jacob told him that too. And then they enter in a dark time when Jacob seems silent, Ben begins planning a coup (did you notice he hated Widmore for good reasons? Ben has a heart, even after the loss of innocence, not killing Rousseau, and taking Alex to raise shows that. But then again perhaps Alex could have saved Rousseau from madness, and she could have become a better person, so maybe it was a sin to take her.) I have a feeling Nemesis righteously judges sin, as that is the reality of the rules of the game, but this disbelief in the common good in man leaves unable to help them rise above their sin. So his taking Jacob (through using Widmore and Richard unwittingly) causing him to slowly resent Jacob, seeding the effects of hate all leads to Ben's killing Jacob, he is if nothing else a picture of the psychological empty man, just as locke was the philosophical. in effect they are one and the same. puppets for Nemesis because of their emptiness. Self indentity becomes a very important thing. One other really suffers from this, Jack, and I think this will be key in the ending season, Jack's struggle to come to love himself
I could go on, but there's so much that I would fill pages. I might even start a blog..would be fun.
Great recap as always.
This episode rocked! I noticed how Jacob touched everyone. I knew there was a body in that crate, but I wasn't sure who. Now I'm putting it together about how Richard came to Locke in the jungle telling him he had to die. This was definitely the best season of LOST. I also think that blondie could've been pregnant. She held her hand on her stomach before she declined the tea.
I can't wait to find out more about Richard next season.
Vozzek PLEASE do another "Theory of Everything," I'm am very anxious to hear what you have to say going into the final season.
@billgleason2006: what if there were two smokies? there's a light n dark; Jacob and [Samuel] (the name given to the other guy in the first scene on the casting list); good and evil. Smokey and Foggy? lol.
In this show, there is never one side to anything. Man of Faith, Man of Science. Good, Evil. WHH, Change. For Jacob, against Jacob. The list goes on. And on. And on.
So, why should there be only one smokey? I mean, was it just me or was the temple smokey a lot grayer than the Jungle Smokey, who was always black.
Just a little theory. Another comment above also said that maybe Jacob's true form was a version of smokey. What if the two big dudes on the island were both smokey too. Well, that sounds weird. Maybe they both have their own smokies, like pets.
@Josh
I had a similar idea, kinda.
'I disagree that 'Esau' is Smokey [I think Smokey is a neutral physical vessel that Jacob and 'Esau' have hi-jacked throughout their lifetimes to carry out their own different agendas], but the rest was grand.'
'Also, more fuel for Smokey not being Esau, why did Locke say this back in season 1 after encountering it:
'I looked into the heart of the island and what I saw was beautiful'
I don't think he'd say that about Smokey as we've seen it, could you...? It gave me a 'gentle giant' like impression, for some reason.
And also, Smokey could've slaughtered Kate and Juliet back in 'Left Behind', but all it did was take photos? Could there be some link between that, the Jacob touching and the 'interesting' perceptions of the Losties memories?
Perhaps Jacob was preserving/blessing/protecting them all somehow by doing a combination of that, for something in the future [like at the end of The Incident]?'
thanks vozz for another great recap.
question :
is walt going to play an important role at all in season 6?
Bernard and Rose / Adam and Eve?
Remember the bones Jack found in the cave season 1 #06 "House of the Rising Sun"?
They lived out their 'retirement' and pass away in the logical place for an older persons could live easily (running water, near by food, etc.) and they know about it from visiting it in their future past.
And they were together at that end too.
make sure you give Lostisgame.com credit - the writer on that site has been calling this for years and their response at this point to everyone now just coming around to the fact that this is, indeed, a game, is: OWNED!!!!!!!!
Your insights are always amazing Vozz and I agree on many of your points but does anyone think that Ben is in fact Jacob?Just like at what we dont know of Ben ie.. what exactly happened when he was taken to the temple, its entirely possible there that Jacob took his form.So Jacob kills himself if thats possible and the dark man impersonating locke feels at ease and lets his guard down not knowing that Ben is really Jacob.That could be a crazy twist we wouldn't see coming.
Jacob resurrects our old Locke somehow.
Hurley and Miles will undoubtedly expose the truth that the dead locke knows and what Jacob know (if he does die)
I don't know but somehow I guess we are seeing Jack's eye in the Season 6 Promo
one problem w/ this post: vozzek is implying that esau doesn't know where to find jacob. this isn't true; in the beginning of the episode, we see Jacob camped out by the foot of the statue, and esau obviously knows where jacob lives...not sure why this point was lost but it's a relatively minor detail.
@Chosenoneknuckles
You bring up a good point. When we see smokey he is either violent or observent. This could be the key difference between the two smokies if there are infact two.
Smokey is definately a larger part of this game then we think, which is why i think the producers plan on revealing what it truly is/its purpose or whatever. I think it will be hard to explain what it truly is, even for the producers, because think about it:
its a column of smoke
it can invade minds
it can produce small electrical pulses
it is very ancient
it can split apart
it can be a "gas" state of matter
it can also become a "solid" state of matter when it kills or destroys things
it has a complex thinking process and knows the differences between certain groups of people.
So, what in the hell is this thing, why is it there, how does it do what it does, how did it get there, and finally, does it have a conciousness?
And so the dark dude/monster develops an elaborate plan: To become Locke, it knows the original John Locke needs to die. But the island (Jacob?) won't let allow Locke to die; this is best evidenced when Ben shoots him point blank and he somehow lives. It realizes it needs to get Locke off island in order to kill him. It then uses ghost Christian to manipulate Locke into turning the wheel, where it knows/hopes Locke will be killed, while at the same time planting seeds in Locke's head that he'll need to die in order to come back. Ben dutifully brings Locke's body back on Ajira 316, thinking he's doing the island's bidding when he's actually doing the opposite. The smoke monster takes over from there. All that's left at that point is to gain a weapon with which to kill Jacob. That weapon is Ben, and the dark man has been sharpening that weapon for a long time now.
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Perfect summarization. Good job!
CoDeMaN! The first episode of this show introduces the monster! The first season introduces the Whispers, Ghost Christian, cursed numbers and it shows Locke walking miraculously. THIS SHOW HAS ALWAYS BEEN SCI FI!!!!!!!!!
to follow up on that, the rules of the game seem to imply that to get an audience with jacob you have to be leader of the others. be it ben or locke at that point, both are in the room, and esau knows he cannot kill jacob as it's against the rules. ben has to be the one to do it. he actually takes back the role of leader of the others in this scene, albeit briefly, because once esau/locke enters jacob's domain, esau is simply using locke as a shell.
i'm not sure if terry o'quinn knew this or not when they told him he was coming back to life on the island, but slowly/surely, we've seen locke act not quite like locke - much more bold, direct, and impatient over the past few episodes, and different somehow. I'd be curious to know if o'quinn knew about this plot twist ahead of time or if they had to just tell him to act a little differently since there's something more to his character now that wasn't there before.
Vozzek! You're awesome! I have to go back to read everything you wrote but I just skimmed through it real quick to make sure I wasn't mentioning something you had already wrote about.
Last night when Juliet was being "grabbed" by the chain, I thought how it looked like when Smokie grabs and drags someone...and tonight upon rewatching with my boys, I realized it was the chain sounds Smokie makes. Am I crazy or was this "Smokie" pulling Juliet down??? And keeping her alive long enough to blow up the bomb???
Hope to listen to you again soon on the ODI podcast!!!
disagree on the comment re: Juliet. True, we did not see that Jacob visited her, but take a second peek at the very last scene in season 5...tell me she's unimportant now?
as far as ben goes, i was also a bit disappointed that he didn't just throw down the knife and walk out on those two goons, frustrated with both of them but refusing to play in their game anymore. but ben is a human being, who has been foresaken by his "god". jacob can't bend the rules and simply explain ben away, telling him everything will be all right.
The game idea is well accepted - Mousetrap scene with John Locke - Widmore vs. Ben, Others vs. 815ers, Walt and Locke - Backgammon - this episode just showed how deep or how wide the game went maybe that guy called all of that ...
Also, I am sad Fake Locke kind of kills a long shot pet theory of mine that Locke was Iron Man from the song Iron Man as Iron Man comes back from the dead in the song
"Can he walk at all ...
He was turned to steel
In the great magnetic field
Where he traveled time
For the future of mankind ...
Planning his vengeance
That he will soon unfold
Now the time is here
For iron man to spread fear
Vengeance from the grave
Kills the people he once saved ..."
Umm... you lost me immediately when you said the statue is Anubis. It's an Egyptian god, but it's Sobek.
Smokey is not the dark man. Smokey is simply a judge. Anubis does the ritual called the weighing of the heart in egyptian lore. Somehow Smokey is tied to this ritual as displayed in the carving above the "smokey grate". Smokey can also be the jury as when he bashed echo. The manifestations (either Yemi or Locke2) are just a manifestation of the dark man.
Vozzek,
Regarding your thought about the changing of the end splash page, if you will, I thought of it as being White over Black (ep 1-101) and now it is Black over White.
Just a thought. Thanks for the recap, these definitely help connect the dots a little better after watching an episode.
Locke can't be the dark man because he knows that Jacob lives under the statue, they showed them in the beginning. Locke didn't know that Jacob was under the statue so he is not the dark man.
pastrynurse – I had the same thought after the ending – how can Richard say to Sun that he saw them all die – if he wasn’t there to see them perhaps die/disappear in the “incident”. Maybe he sees them disappear at some other time after the incident?
ericvsthem and Atomsk - I agree re smoky needing bodies – maybe that’s why the others wanted their peoples’ bodies back – to bury them and not make them accessible to smoky. Of all the Losties that died and were actually buried (Nikki and Paulo, et al), I don’t think any of them came back. Well now though – what about Libby and Ana Lucia. They came back – but off island. And what about all the Dharma bodies in the pit – not buried, but, as far as we know, no doppelgangers for them? So that theory is shot to heck.
ruinerny – you channeled my thoughts virtually word for word!!
pastrynurse: RIchard said "I watched them all die." If he saw them take the nuke to the Swan, saw the white flash light up the sky, hears Chang & Radzinsky's eyewitness testimony that they were there before the detonation, and knows their bodies were never found (which we know is b/c they flashed to 2007, right? ;) ), it seems like this could be a pretty safe, reasonable statement.
I like the idea that Locke originally saw Jacob's smoke poof, not the dark smoke monster.
Parker: I think it must have been Jacob who summoned them - didn't his Nemesis say specifically that Jacob summoned the ship and that he was always bringing these corrupting people to the island?
How on earth could the Nemesis really not know that Jacob lives in the foot of the statue (since that is where we first saw him in the 1800s)?
"The one thing that was missed was Jack put Christian's shoes on John. Those shoes were the key to Esau's transferring into John after he died." Hmm, very interesting!
Great recap, as usual. Just a few things I noticed, too:
*That "counting to 5" story Jack told Kate in the pilot episode either changed somehow or was total BS to begin with. In the pilot, he completely omitted his father's role in the surgery at all (and the fact that, not only was the counting to five ALL Christian's idea, but an idea Jack wasn't especially grateful for at the time). Is this an intentional change, or was it just meant to show us Jack's more human side? (B/C I've gotta admit, that somehow softened my heart for old Jack. I like him much better now that he's not thumping his chest and hollering about being a doctor all the time, as if that makes him God...and I definitely like him better now that I see proof that his father wasn't a monster...go figure. :) ) In any case, what up with that? Will he ever confront his illusions and really get over them? Or is this a sign that Jacob somehow changed the past?
*To whoever said it above, yeah, the Jack-Sawyer 5-minute meeting in the woods DID remind me of the Ben-Jack meeting in the S4 finale. I think both Sawyer and Ben used the phrase "you owe me that much" in requesting their meeting, too.
*I somewhat like the idea going here that Juliet, like Desmond, is a variable, and that her hitting the bomb (we don't know that it blew up yet) is similar to his turning the failsafe key. One problem, though. Everyone who was in that hatch when it blew (except Desmond) ended up dead. I had a sneaking suspicion when Eko died, and now that we know for sure Locke is dead, I'm almost positive - everyone who is at ground zero when that electromagnetic pocket gets tapped also gets marked for death. What this might mean for Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. is not particularly pleasant.
*How prophetic is it NOW that Eko's last words after getting killed by Smokey/he-who-shall-remain-unnamed were to tell LOCKE, "You're next"? I guess we know now what that meant after all. :(
Oh, and JOHN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Interesting interpretation of the opening scene. When Jacob says, "It only ends once," I took it to mean THE WORLD only ends once (which I think refers to this epic battle everyone has been referring to) and everything in between the beginning of time (which Jacob and HWSRU were probably around for) and the end of it, is progress. I don't think they were specifically talking about a time loop of our Losties bumping about in space-time (since the Black Rock was just arriving), but about the general pattern of Jacob bringing people to the island in order to test some theories out, and then each group continually turning corrupt and violent.
One parallel that I noticed in the incident was the death and sacrifice of Christ Jesus, and that of Jacob. Just as Satan himself couldn't kill Jesus, he uses the Jewish religious leaders hatred and jealousy of him to get them to hatch a plot to have him falsely accused, and unjustly crucified.
Jesus, also could have escaped crucifiction if he chose to do so, but he didin't. You see he had a plan. And when Satan kills and crucifies Christ, he actually play's right into his hands. Jesus layed his life down for mankind, so that by believing and accepting his sacrifice and resurrection, this could atone for their sins, which were condemning them.
Jacob seemed to have the same type of quiet confidence when it came to his own death, and I think he has a plan. Season six will tell us what the plan is. I think this will allow him to become more powerful, and somehow endow the losties with his power.
It's Tawaret and here's the proof from the episode recap on the official LOST site on abc.com:
"And as the camera pulls back, we see what we've been waiting to see since we first glimpsed that four-toed foot over three years ago... the towering, majestic statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret."
I think that settles it, no?
I've never commented here, but have been following since beginning- I can't help but notice all the references to 'Esau' as the counterpart of dark to Jacob's light, but the biblical Jacob & Esau were human and not fully good/evil.
With all the Egyptian references now fully shown, as well as the statue most likely the deity Sobek, I can't help but think that Jacob & A.J. are closer to Set & Horus.
Set was the evil brother, associated with serpents(Smokey-ish?)and Horus was the good deity who defeated Set (or maybe confined him to a cabin surrounded by ash?)and then set up Pharoahs as guardians of the truth. Maybe the 'leaders?'
Also Richard- the American spiritual leader Ram Dass was given his spiritual name which means 'servant of God' but Ram Dass's ( I think he's still alive) birth name was Richard Alpert.
Horus' mother, Isis, hid him on an island as a baby after Set killed his father, Osiris. She separated the island from it's foundations so it would float around & keep him from being found while she searched for Osiris' body, which Set had caused to be hidden.
Set & Osiris were brothers and Set was jealous of Osiris in early Egyptian lore, which over time became Set as evil & Osiris (& his son Horus) as good.
Just so many great references to philosophy & world religions. Thanks for letting me ramble...
Zorro how I miss your insight. Come so the great powers, you and Vozzek can debate for 8 months.
Here's the link for that btw,
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=recap#t=162212&d=201648
Vozz - Excellent, thought provoking recap (as always!)
1. - Not sure if anybody mentioned this but the only Losties that Jacob visited as children were Sawyer & Kate (we also saw Juliet as a child)...Jacob visited Sun, Jin, Hurley, Locke, and Jack as adults. I noticed this right when Sawyer & the chicks confronted Hurley's Magic Dharma Bus starring Doctor StrangeJackface. Not sure of the significance, though (if any)
2. - As if being traumatized by last years Finale wasn't enough, I was subjected once AGAIN to seeing John Locke all corpsed-up. (I think the actual words I screamed at the TV were "THANKS, DARLTON - JUST BREAK MY F*****G HEART AGAIN!!!")
3. I know a lot of people have taken to calling the black-shirted man 'Esau', and it bothers me. Wasn't there also a Jacob in the OT, with something about a ladder?
4. By far, the line that made me BURST out laughing was when Pseudo-Locke queried Ben, "Can I ask you a question-" as Ben cut in with, "I'm a Pisces." LOLOLOL
"every single one of our characters has done something to prove the dark man right... something that could be judged to be impure by his own definition of human nature. Everyone, of course, except for one person: Hurley."
If we want to get all biblical, Glottony is a sin. Hurley did not mean it, but he killed people with his girth. Apologies to fat people everywhere.
forgot to add that Sobek was the consort of the goddess Taweret, Sobek was the righter of harm done and Taweret was goddess of fertility/protector of childbirth and children. Statue could certainly be Taweret as Sean states, and would tie in the fertility problem theme.
I definitly like all your theories about the importance of hurley. If the losties that were on board 316 are transported back to the 316 plane upon crashing (which i have a strong feeling they will) it will be hurley who will most likley talk to the "real" John locke. Locke will tell him whats goin down and the losties will have a chance to save Jacob's life. When Jacab said, "they are coming" he was referring to the losties comeing back to the present.
I have something to point out that I don't think anyone noticed, and I really hope this isn't a production error:
Ajira Flight 316 takes flight in 2008. Jacob visists Hurley the day before the flight. Time flash to 2007... Jacob is stabbed and "killed" by Ben in 2007, a whole year earlier...
Anyone else see the potential problem, or clue here?
Jacob dies in 2007. He visits Hurley in 2008. Either he's not dead, or that's a pretty massive mistake.
@ Daniel: Sun, Frank, and Ben were all on the same plane with Hurley. I think there is some year confusion by many here.
Daniel you've figured it out.. props
V - thanks for your best recap yet.
My $3.2 million dollars on this:
Black Ship came and Mr. "I already ate" couldn't find his loophole to kill Jacob.
Many groups have come and no loophole was found.
Ohhh but the Losties came and Mr. "do you know how badly I want to kill you" found a loophole and had Jacob killed.
Sounds like things are changing to me.
Changers rule!!!! Hoorahhhh for change!!!
Relax people, Zorro will come eventually. He is just drilling into his pocket full of assiness.
Does anyone wonder why it is that Esau needs Locke & Ben to be the loophole? First, there have been so many dead people on the island. Esau could have possessed any number of these other people besides Locke. Second, if Locke had to be chosen, wasn't it only because he could be convincing enough as a Leader of the Others that Richard would be persuaded to lead him to where Jacob lived?
But isn't this a major continuity error -- I mean it's not as though Esau doesn't know where Jacob lives? Jacob even said that when Esau finds the loophole, he'd be waiting there (as in near the statute) for him. So why did Esau need to be led to Jacob? If Esau doesn't need to be led to Jacob to kill him, there's no need for Locke to assume being a leader. Wouldn't it have been much easier for Esau, acting as Jacob, to have conned Ben into killing some guy who lived at the foot of the statue? I mean, it's not as though Ben didn't kill other people for Jacob/Esau.
I think Jacob's touch of Locke was different because Locke was already dead at that point...
Doesn't anybody think that "Esau"-Locke was lying when he said he didn't know where Jacob was so that everyone would come?
If he wasn't lying, he may not have known how to get into the damn foot because of the secret entrance, which only Richard knew about (seemingly).
@joselyn: pastrynurse: RIchard said "I watched them all die." If he saw them take the nuke to the Swan, saw the white flash light up the sky, hears Chang & Radzinsky's eyewitness testimony that they were there before the detonation, and knows their bodies were never found (which we know is b/c they flashed to 2007, right? ;) ), it seems like this could be a pretty safe, reasonable statement.
Nah, Richard either lied, or it hasn't happened yet. It's not reasonable to say he watched them die with his own eyes if it were really only hearsay. And Richard's seen the time travellers "flash" away before; if there were no bodies, he would assume these people moved to a different time instead of 'dying before his eyes'.
So Richard either lied, or it hasn't happened yet.
LOST 2010: "Dharma vs Others, the Eighties"
Chosenoneknuckles said...
Miles might stay in the past...
I thought of that too. Seems likely that he might want to stay with dad.
Just trying to point out that they are running out of main characters for S6. but i think miles might very well be done as well. a lot of character resolutions...
Even tough i am wrong most of the time (I love Lost, its a great humility lesson for me) i got to disagree with you Wozzek.
"Free will Jacob" is not really different from his "fate" brother: seems to me that he doesnt really let peoples decide, he just fools them into doing his bidding.
The closest he appears to let someone decide is when he tells Hurley:
"But It'S your choice Hugo. You dont have to do anything you dont want to". This is the oldest trick in the manipulation handbook. Best way to manipulate someone, make them believe that what you want them to do is their own choice. Yet he arranges everything, up to the guitar case, to be sure Hugo will play his part. These peoples have as much free will as the ball in a pinball machine.
Then with the others, like Sayid, it was totally a manipulation on his part. He did not ask Sayid to decide. He was there to make him a widower, course correction so that he will end up back where he wants him. As he said about the hawaiian candy bar: "I guess it just needed a little push". The 'Little push' to make peoples fall is what he does. So i say bullshit to free will.
Then the final twist is that we discover how Jacob's counterpart also fooled peoples to advance his own agenda. The two brothers are the same, they both use peoples as pawns in their game. Their game is not an argument about merits of free will, is it just a game where they both play with the same rules. Why should we assume that blacK = evil and white = goood anyway? it is western-centrist to assume as such.
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Question about Other's leadership: Richard says to Fake John there can be only one leader at a time. But what of Charles W. and Ellie?? Were they co-leaders or successive ones? Its no goof, its all said on purpose, theres something there, i just dont get it yet.
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So Miles called Pierre 'Dad' for the first time as he loses a hand at the top of a deep pit, after huge metallic objects went flying around. Where are the lightsabers? Is Sawyer Chewbacca?
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Dharma jumpsuits: I cannot figure out why some of Dharma's wear dark Jump suits. Radzinsky and his platoon of elite soldiers-science-construction stormtroopers! Kate had a similar dark suit last week when she was being her usual bad Kate, then only wore it halfway to the waist in the sub then took it off at Rose and Bernie's shack when she is good again. Can it be more obvious, i mean after the intro where a guy with a black shirt wants to kill a guy in a white shirt? Is Radzinsky an incantation of Jacob's Evil twin? might explain a few things.
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Jacob's temple: it has elements of a Zoroastrian fire temple, and even the eagle symbol. Lost borrowed from most major religious cults, from native-american sweat lodge to Hindi funerals - But Galactica has a monopoly on the greek pantheon
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Jocelyn: I was about to post the same thing about the nuke component causing the incident (I do repeat it every week lol. WH,H) and Desmond's Swan Key activating an other similar device. Except that Juliet is a goner. If the almost-red shirt was'nt a sufficient clue, Elizabeth Mitchell will be a lead in the 'V' series remake, a series that will be recycling the characters of Tom Baldwin from the 4400 and Adria from SG1
Now will grief over Juliet turn Sawyer back into a sociopath as he was in season 1?
Does anyone think it likely that the dark man interpreting Christian, led Claire to break the ashes that were imprisoning him in the cabin?
So Voz, I have a different theory on how the smoke monster acquires new forms for himself. I don't think the smoke monster "reading" the people is all he needs, he also needs their body to be on the Island. Think about it, we've never seen him take the form of someone whose corpse wasn't on the island. He didn't just need Locke to die, he needed him to die and be brought back to the Island.
@ Kevin
He took the form of Ben's dead mom. Her body wasn't on the island.
Excellent synopsis and theories surrounding season 5. I, like all of the other LOST fans will be extremely excited to see how Season 6 pans out!
I didn't read any of the comments yet, but here is my big prediction for next season...
There will be two Locke's alive. Jacob will enter the body of the 3 piece suite Lock, while (Esau is what I'm calling him for now) will still be in the form/body of the the Locke that convinced Ben to kill Jacob. We'll see a scene with two Lockes trying to convince people which is the GOOD Locke.
It's a Locke-off people, it's a Locke off. - Billy Zane
Great recap as always, Vozz.
I just wanted to say that I know your concern with the nuke detonating is the explosion, radiation, etc., but I remember Faraday saying that the pocket of EM energy and the nuke would offset each other. So I think Juliet could have set off the nuke and Jack, Kate, Sawyer and company could still survive it. But yeah, who knows.
The more I think about the finale, the more I feel like I can wait for S6. I'll be alright for the hiatus. I'm really not liking the thought of Locke not being himself. I mean, some of the real him had to still be in there, right? He genuinely did seem to not know about Ben and dead-Alex's conversation below the Temple. And I do think that BlackShirt either is Smokey or sides with Smokey, so you'd think that Ben following his orders wouldn't come as a surprise to him. But maybe BlackShirt has an incredible poker face. This has been an elaborate set up he's put together. Damn it, I can't get over Locke. :/
Uh? Anubis? Nah, it's either a version of Tawaret or Sobek.
It's either an hippo head (no hippo don't always look harmless in egyptian mythology, they are the animal that causes the most death in Africa) or a crocodile head.
Lostpedia says it's a crocrodile head (Sobek) and ABC recap says the statue is Tawaret.
The thing is, the bottom of the statue(the feets with the sandals) is of greek artform while the rest is totaly egyptian.
In the foot, there are greek and egyptian symbols.
Also, in egyptian mythology, it makes no sense to put ann Anubis statue there. Tawaret and Sobek however, does.
Anubis was in the temple. His role is to bring the dead to be judges in the hall of Maat. He places the heart of the dead on a scale. If the heart is heavy with burden, he will face Ammit, the great devourer (Smokey killing Eko?). If it's light enough, he'll face Osiris God of the underworld (Smokey sparing Ben?).
Anyway, we have to be careful with this since they mix greek, egyptian and alchemist symbols.
And I agree, one of the top 3 episode ever!
Cheers!
@CoDeMaN: Why the hell are you watching Lost for if you don't like SciFi? It's always been SciFi.
I'd like to hear more about what Dusty K pointed out, that Juliet's childhood home did not appear to be accurately placed in time. The decor, the clothes, her parents' hair styles, were all too current.
How could such sci-fi geeks as Darlton not give fake Locke a goatee? Major slip up.
Are "Team Jacob" t-shirts for sale yet?
so lost is about aliens and Pharaohs you see, and Jacob and "not-locke" are the old aliens that have survived through time and space and whom have been guiding "losties" to the island for generations. they use Richard as a non influencing guider whom is gifted with immortality as long as he follows the code and keeps the secrets to him self kind of a bridge between the two species. The island is a giant observation experiment as old as man, its used to observe and record the reactions man has with the unique traits of the island and how they will use them for them selves.All of the losties lives have all led up to this point...the island is a social experiment that was created before man to test man, but the losties found the loop hole and have hit the reset button which will cause the losties to stay their course in life and actually land in L.A. but will start to remember and realize they have to go back, Jacobs lat words where "they're coming", which leads to the finale of S6.where the losties reunite on the island which is also the vessel that will take them to greater place. see the losties lives have all gone through the there trials and errors which created them into the people they are now, the perfect candidates to a larger then life experience and which has been happening for thousands of years with thousands of losties tested to see if they are fit to move on. see Lost is bigger the characters, bigger then the island, bigger then the planet, bigger the even the cosmos it will truly become an adventure of time and space and their lives have gone the course to create them, prepare them, for their true rebirth...
was i the only one who thought that the score for the finale was FREAKING EPIC!!! Giachinno did AMAZING!!! Especially Jacobs theme everytime jacob appeared i got chills, and then of course the greatest Lost scene of all time when sawyer has to let go of juliet and falls down the hatch...epic!
Great recap, man! I tend to think WHH is still intact, but I love the way you made both option look credible.
I agree, Hurley is the pure one.
I agree, John Locke needs to come back as John Locke.
I just think that what they did at the Swan did not change things in the past, but will have huge effects in the present time, 2007.
Well, see you next year! I'm gonna start watching Fringe! Hehehe, that's right! I'm not left with a void!
According to the official ABC recap, the statue is Taweret.
The 2 guys remind me of the feuding brothers of MYST.
Lindelof mentioned the "touching" in an interview featured in the most recent Totally Lost video.
Wish someone would translate the greek featured on the tapestry. Jacob mentions that it takes a long time to create the tapestry. At the beginning of the episode, we see him making the string and weaving the tapestry. This must be an indication of a long time passing.
I think Locke knew where to go the whole time, but he needed Richard there to open the door for him, because theres the rule that only the leader can go in to see Jacob. And obviously this fake Locke isn't the leader. Maybe that means it's still Ben? and he needed ben to go in.
Jacob's orders to have Rousseau's daughter killed when she was a baby may make sense now, seeing as how Smokey used her eventual death to turn Ben into his pawn.
I like how people still think the statue was Anubis or Tawaret, when the show visually proves it was neither =), also people saying they are right about one thing or another (bombs blowing up, Locke being smoke monster), when nothing conclusive has been presented on the show. People call Man No. 2 Esau, newsflash, this isn't the bible we're watching... also, my buddy said it was confirmed Man No. 2 was Alvar Hanso... I don't think he was watching the right show hahaha.
Bottom line, anything that doesn't come our TV screens is only theory or speculation. No one can be right or wrong... yet.
Also, when Jacob touched Locke in the flashback, it seemed that Locke was about to die and Jacob healed him. If Locke is just Smokey's loophole, I'm wondering why Jacob would try to use him ... unless he has already anticipated Smokey's move, and is setting him up. I get the feeling that's why Jacob said to Locke, "I'm sorry this had to happen to you" -- pointing to Locke's future as a pawn on Jacob and Smokey's chessboard.
A random thought...
There was a flash/explosion that moved the Losties in time again... to 2010.
Oceanic 815 crashed on 9/22/04 a real date. Will they flash to January ?? 2010?
Isn't it great we all watched the same show and many saw so many different things and have so many theories? That is the true beauty of the story of LOST.
i think richard just meant he saw Dharma in general die in the purge. i don't think he meant anyone specific. i assume that means the purge still eventually happens...
Are we gonna have a Locke vs. Locke battle??? Orig Locke ressurected and granted eternal life by Illana per Jacobs request (then we'd learn how Richard gained this)?
Thanks for you great thoughts on this season's finale, and throughout the season. I love reading it all! Sometimes it confirms things I am already thinking, but sometimes, you help me see things I didn't see, or think of things I never would have on my own. Either way, it always makes for a great read. Thanks again!
"locke" lures all the others to jacob's residency because he wants to kill them after he has killed jacob ("you need some rest because of what i have planned for you" or similar).
however jacob's "hiding" place is not so great - it does not even have a ceiling and the remainder of the statue could be easily climbed...well...
diatribes and dish said...
Great job. I especially like your analysis of the Jack/Kate discussion in which she changes her mind. Most others are saying she's a wimpy flip-flopper, but from what I saw last night, you hit the nail on the head.
Friday, May 15, 2009 12:05:00 AM
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I think the reason so many fans think that Kate is a wimpy flip-flopper is they can't accept her actually wanting to be with Jack. They can't accept that she would intelligently agree with Jack ever over anything. They feel this way because they want her to be with Sawyer who is their favorite character. I'm not saying this is the case for everyone who thinks Kate is a wimpy flip-flopper but I am saying this is the case for many Sawyer and Skate fans.
I don't think jacob chose to die. He was powerless to stop Ben once his persuasive one-liner fell short. It seems those two demi-gods can't physically interfere with people. It's why Christian couldn't help Locke up after falling down the well, and it's why Locke needed Ben to kill Jacob.
btw, anybody remember twin peaks? black-lodge, white-lodge...double-cooper...?
@ ryan: to me it seems that he did reanimate locke after he fell out of the window by actually physically touching him, in addition other manifestations of blackshirt clearly shoved people around...
Hey Vozzek i love your posts. I was just wondering if you had thought about the connection between Ben's life and the Book of Job. In the Book of Job a game is played between God and the Devil to test the faith of Job. God argues that Job is a good man and nothing the Devil can do will destroy his faith in God. The Devil tests Job three times, destroying his land, killing his children, and finally covering him from head to toe in boils. After each test Job remains faithful, refusing to curse God, and the Devil is proven wrong.
It is interesting to me the similarities between Bens life and the Book of Job. Even the tests seem to be the same, only in a reversed order, first he is given a tumor, then he loses his daughter, finally he loses his land (banished from the island.) The other major difference is obviously the end result where Ben does curse Jacob (God) and the Devil (the guy in black) is proven right.
Here are some pics that might influence you people into thinking that the statue is Tawaret. We are far from hungry-hungry hippo! She does have sharp teeth. It is a misconception of the hippopotamus(sp?)to think that they are not deadly. They are the animal that causes the most death in Africa(very territorial). I know the body doesen't seem to fit, but we can't really see from this angle. I'll post a pic of the image Iliana finds in the cabin...you'll see...Plus, I think it's important the fact that it's a mix of greek and egyptian artform. They are not 100% accurate with all this mythological stuff. Finaly, Tawaret was not only the goddess of fertility, but the mistress of the horizon...and where does she look?
http://www.museumofmythology.com/Egypt/Tawaret/tawaret/tawaret-1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Tawaret.jpg
http://www.zw1840.com/egypt/god/taweret.jpg
http://egyptianhealing.com/Taweret.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Taweret_in_faience.jpg/200px-Taweret_in_faience.jpg
http://www.bnhof.de/~luggi/statue3.png
This is from the show:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fourtoedreconstructed.jpg
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:BramHoldingStatue.png
I bet on Tawaret!
I am wondering if the person who they refer to when they say the one who will protect them all is actually the original Locke, as his body now lies in the shadow of the statue. So maybe something will happen to bring this Locke back to life and he will defeat the evil Locke, or maybe, by him coming back to life, Jacob's Enemy will no longer be able to take the form of Locke's body.
Yeah, it looks a lot like the book of Job! To me, they are mixing some important mythologies togheter.
Egyptian, greek, taoism, alchemist symbols, christian/jewish/muslim etc.
@ benjamin potter: of course they are doing this. in essence they will "explain" the force(s) behind every religion/philosophy known to mankind.
@ rift facedancer: i don't know if that phrase refers to locke (i rather think about jacob), but i think it is possible that jacob will resurrect in locke's body so that there will be 2 lockes in season 6 - black and white
Agreed! I'd add science. I say "matter vs anti matter"! Like in the begining of the Big Bang.
people, the drilling continues...
when he hits the pocket, as ellie would say "God help us all"
Amen...
At the very end we hear an explosion. This is the game changer, this changes EVERYTHING. Whatever happened, Happend. But the nuclear explosion didn't happen yet if you know what I mean.
The Original incident was the drilling, hitting the pocket of energy thus bringing about the hatch, Desmond, Desmond crashing 815 and so on, and so forth.
IF the Nuclear Explosion was the original incident, as mentioned the whole site, and pretty much probably the whole island would be contaminated. Then we go onto the sickness and the suits Desmond and Kelvin wear, I don't think that is radiation, I think this is the 'trick' this is the trick Dharma play on those in the hatch that if they leave, they get sick.
In my opinion those on 815 will land at LAX, however due to the fact that Sun is still stuck in 2007, her altered timeline doesn't conincide with those in the 70's, she will stay in 2007.
She will find a way off the island, so technically IMO she will disspear Midflight of 815. There cannot be two 'Suns' at the same time, just like there cannot be two 'Charlottes'. She will have a whole lot of explaining to do, she will be like Locke, trying to get them together she will try and explain the un-explainable, and then they will go back to the island, save Juillet and do whatever needs doing. Remember Desmond is also off the island, he knows what happend. He is in the altered timeline.
Now IF once more the Nuclear Explosion was the original incident, we will be back where we started, Faraday will still be crying for some reason, Desmond will still be in the hatch. And Season 6 will essentially be Season 1.
But I don't believe that to be the case, for one very simple reason, the invereted title screen. Black v White. Evil was winning in the past few seasons, now Good is ahead, this is everything Eloise and Widmore have been planning. It isn't Widmore v Ben, it's an irrelevant arguement. Eloise and Widmore are the good guys, Ben is just a pawn in a very long and very large game.
Eloise is right, the island isn't finished with Desmond, because even though IMO they have landed at LAX, They where never meant to land at LAX. They where always meant to be on the island.
The way I saw the finale, it ended up defining Locke and Ben as nothing more than pawns in a larger puzzle, therefore practically negating the intense conflict that made up a large chunk of seasons 2 3 and 4. It always seemed to me as if Ben and Locke (if not Richard) knew what was supposed to happen in the long run, then it turns out they had absolutely NO clue. Aaaaaaall the stuff that seemed to have monumental importance leading up to the finale, until they revealed that *BAM* Locke was secretly a brand new entity that *JUST* got introduced [a little earlier]. Game changer... I guess... a cheap-o game changer.
Ultimately I still have faith in Locke (the ACTUAL Locke, the dude born in Tustin in 56 who worked at a box company who looked into the eye of the island). Something has gotta happen; they did NOT build up 5 seasons for him to just go through his entire time on the island with the wrong idea and to have him die for the purpose of evil and end his story there (in other words, that Darlton make him one of the main focuses of the show, brand him a sucker, and then remove him from the picture). Locke wouldn't have said "I wish you had believed me" to Jack if what he did was for evil. I hope Locke will somehow be redeemed. My wish is Locke and Jack will finally unite and defeat the evil on the island. I have a feeling the Smoke Monster will be the guardian of the final boss, if not THE final boss; either feels appropriate on many levels. If not Jack + Locke v. Monster, it'll be Jack v. Monster in order to rescue/save/redeem Locke. I hope. That'd be cool. Imo.
*sigh*. Anything can happen...
I don't think that the statue is Anubis, rather Sobek, the crocogod…
Jacob visited each one at a defining moment in each one of their lives.
Well done mate, was the best summary i have read for ages.
***burkedain said...
Lovely post, I'm trying to work out the big mysteries not solved, but after reading your thoughts I wonder if we experienced a 'if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you imagine' kind of scene with Jacob?
I totally got that vibe, Darlton are big Star Wars fans. I also have th feeling that Fake Locke "still has good in him, I can feel it" and he will probably have some kind of Darth Vader redemption role.
Great write-up as always Vozz, hope to see you post some of your theories (anything at all) during the hiatus.
There are both egyptian hieroglyphics and ancient greek writing on the thing Jacob wove. The statue appears to have elements of both egyptian and greek mythology. The head definitely resembles Taweret, or maybe Sobek although the headdress is nothing like Sobek's, but the sandals resemble greek mythology. Egyptian gods were never depicted wearing sandals. However, the body definitely does not resemble Taweret's, for one Taweret is female and obviously pregnant, while the statue appears to be male and resembles Sobek's body more closely.
So either it's meant to be Sobek but they screwed up the headdress, or it's an amalgam of things and we aren't really meant to identify a single god it's meant to represent. It's no secret that Lost is all about mixing all these mythologies/religions, so I'm siding with the latter.
My "theory" is that Jacob and "Esau" are two non-specific deities representing light/darkness, good/evil, yin/yang, whatever, who are involved in an eternal game with specific rules. I think the game involves "Esau" trying to overpower Jacob by killing him, but cannot kill him directly, and can use humans as pawns. I think Smokey IS "Esau", all evidence points to that. However, if this theory is true, then they have revealed way too much for there to still be a whole season to go. Therefore I think that my theory is either very wrong, or very incomplete, otherwise we are in for a predictable 6th season, which I consider very unlikely.
Haven't read any of the comments yet...I will later. I'm betting this is being said frequently though. Poor Juliet is dead so Skate happens next year. Jack is the candidate...he'll be the new Jacob.
Anth, I doubt that your theory can be right... the reason that TPTB have put in the "What Happens, Happens" thing is that, without it, you create Paradoxes. If the bomb could stop 815 from crashing on the island, how could the Losties have come to the island in order to detonate the bomb? Etc... there would be billions of arguments and paradoxes against this.
I think that Season 6 will start out much simpler than that. They're not going to bring in any paradoxes because, as soon as they do, they become like every other time travel show ever. Plus, even if Season 6 ended on a happy ending, there would then be the possibility that someone new could come along, turn the wheel, go back in time and undo everything again...?
I honestly think that people are overcomplicating things with these sorts of theories. I believe:-
Juliet is DEAD
The bomb wasn't as bad as people think
The other Losties will survive
They'll find a way back to 2007 - but not immediately (there's more story to tell)
etc...
The bigger thing in season 6 will be Smokey and Jacob.
Something else worth thinking about... could the reason that Alpert hasn't aged be that he also hasn't "sinned"? Smokey thinks that everyone will sin at some point... Jacob thinks it's possible for someone not to. But you can't prove 100% that someone wouldn't sin because, to do that, you need to throw every single possibility at that person, millions of times... if they die, how do you know that they wouldn't have sinned 5 minutes later had they lived that long? But, given that, it means that Smokey/Jacob's argument will be eternal... Jacob can't prove that someone won't sin - and Smokey can't prove that absolutely everyone will... Jacob theoretically wins on the argument that if someone dies as a baby, they've not sinned - but I think the rules of the argument go against this (on the basis that the baby would've sinned had it lived).
Great post, loved the Armageddon piece!
Hey Vozz, you keep calling them Demigods. Do you truly mean that, like you think they are half human/half god and have a human parent and a god parent? Or are you using the term Demigod loosely?
"but he touched Locke in an extra special way."
haha!
sorry, vozz...
Vozzek, thanks for the recaps this season, they were awesome and I will miss reading them during the Hiatus. One thing I noticed: I watched the season three finale again with a collegue of mine. In the scene where John and Jack meet at the Orchid, John tells Jack about their Destiny. Jack says he does not believe in destiny. John then says "yes you do, you just don't know it yet'. When I heared that, knowing what I know now after seeing the S05 finale, I don't know, coincidence? Remember the scene where we see John fall, when Jacob touches him he is revived, John died from the fall I am almost certain off it. I think from that moment on he was allready the 'John 2.0'. All the things John says all the time, 'You are not supposed to do this Jack' when Jack calls the freigther etc.
And what if the Jacob we saw visiting al the losties, isn't Jacob at all. What if that was that other guy from the beach who wanted to kill Jacob so bad? If the producers can make him look like John Locke then why not manifest himself as Jacob. Not that the form or person matters but I think it is something to keep in mind.
I think the real Irony and the prime example of good trumping evil will turn out to be the real John Locke.
The one thing Mr X never accounted for in his entire plan was the light that has been been flickering (and is now burning brightly) right from the start, FAITH. MR X overlooked the real John Locke and the belief he held that was tested right through the entire chain of events we have seen from episode 1, it is that faith that made Locke special and made Jack do the 180 to set off the entire chain of (IMO new) events seen in the finale.
The theory about the last 3 seasons mirroring the first 3 is entirely consistent with the end of season 3 - Through the Looking Glass. Perhaps everything we've seen since that point has been through this looking glass. It wasn't supposed to happen (as Locke said back then). Perhaps the detonation of jughead, instead of putting them back on Oceanic 815, the beginning of season 1, or 2007, will in fact put them back at the end of season 3 (or the beginning depending on whether it was Charlie unblocking the signal that changed things or Desmond blowing up the hatch)? This would bring back Charlie (who they went to extremes to remind us of in this episode) but not bring about the problem of having a young Walt. Maybe that's why Walt had to leave the island at the end of season 2! ;)
I don't think we can assume that Smokey is taking the form of people like Christian and Yemi. It's possible, of course, but we've never actually seen him do this. He may be a neutral force working with both Jacob and Anti-Jacob/Esau.
I do think that the Incident has always involved the fission part of Jughead. Remember Sayid's comment about the cement in the Swan and how it reminded him of Chernobyl. Again, the Losties are acting out of free will to fulfill their fates.
As for Jacob and Anti-Jacob, they may be the forces of Good and Evil, or they me be Fate and Free Will, with Jacob actually being Fate, giving our Losties nudges in the right direction when needed. He was spinning thread and weaving a tapestry afterall. And Anti-Jacob was looking for a loophole around Fate. Given Jacob's reaction, though, Anti-Jacob may have payed into his hands.
Please tell me when the 3rd time that Richard saw Locke. I remeber Richard seeing him when he was a baby and when he was a liitle boy? When was the 3rd time?
"So Voz, I have a different theory on how the smoke monster acquires new forms for himself. I don't think the smoke monster "reading" the people is all he needs, he also needs their body to be on the Island. Think about it, we've never seen him take the form of someone whose corpse wasn't on the island. He didn't just need Locke to die, he needed him to die and be brought back to the Island."
Wouldn't explain Smokey being Ben's mother or Kate's black horse.
"Please tell me when the 3rd time that Richard saw Locke. I remeber Richard seeing him when he was a baby and when he was a liitle boy? When was the 3rd time?"
He didn't visit Locke 3 times, just twice. I think Vozz misheard it. He told Jack he had left the island 3 times, he didn't say they were all to visit Locke. The 3rd trip off-island was (I believe) to film Rachel & Julian to prove to Juliet that Rachel survived the cancer.
Bens - Loved the comparisons between Jacob and the Darkman/Monster in opening paragraphs and throughout your commentary!
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Vozz - "...within the shadow of what now looks to be Anubis, jackal-god of death.
Bens - …many think the statue now is NOT Anubis NOR Taweret but Sobek!
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Vozz - Is this the smoke monster judging Ben again, trying to get him to admit his big charade? Hell yes.
Bens - More than that, Ben is finding belated redemption in a Sean O’Flannery type of way… its is brutual, sudden, unexpected and inconvenient!
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Vozz - Then Ben asks Locke why he wants HIM to kill Jacob. Locke responds by throwing more fuel on the fire... giving Ben's motivations against Jacob a huge push. The dark man/smokie wants to breed anger and resentment toward Jacob, causing Ben to lose control of himself again the way he did when he killed Keamy. The smoke monster is honing Ben to a razor-sharp edge this last episode, breeding the anger and resentment needed to strike the killing blow.
Bens - This is very Satan-like in deceitful, angry tones of rage and self-pride.
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Vozz - After his fall, Jacob touches Locke distinctly on the shoulder. His touch also seems to revive (or resurrect) him.
Bens - Which may be foreshadowing for the season ahead. Both for Locke and for the Castaways! blown to smittherines at the Swan/Hatch.
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Vozz - At Sun & Jin's wedding, Jacob reaches out and pats them both on their shoulders at the same time.
Bens - It is curious that he touches them both at the same time… perhaps this simple act is then meant that they will never be separated from one another.
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Vozz - Only in the meeting with Illana does Jacob not touch her. But we can't see his hands, and he does lean in really close to her... so it still might've happened. Then again, Illana wasn't a passenger on flight 815 as the others were, and seemed more of Jacob's agent. Touching her didn't seem as important... So, why does Jacob touch each character at some point in their past? I'll bet it's got something to do with knowing (and reading) their thoughts, their memories, and their lives.
Bens - Nor would it be necessary to touch Illana. She was not caught in the time-traveling vortex that the 815 quantum-Survivors were caught in; she would not need to be drawn back through time within this exploding Singularity. Much as the metal pieces were drawn to the electromagnetic force at the Swan, so these perished souls were drawn back to Jacob!
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Vozz - Maybe he even visited Sayid at the exact moment he would've crossed the street and gotten killed, effectively saving him from being buried along with Nadia. And maybe Sayid dies from the gunshot wound he receives this episode because course correction puts him back where he belongs? Let's hope not.
Bens - Hadn't thot of that ! Good revelation!
I'm almost positive the smoke monster isn't the "Man in Black".
DHARMA has designated it a "security system"; I'm guessing this is because of the way they've encountered it and by no means because they know anything about it. Even Ben doesn't really understand it.
It is my opinion that Smoke Monster is in actuality the Egyptian God, Thoth; sometimes called "Judge of the Two Combatant Gods".
I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that Jacob is Anubis.
The "man in black" would be Set.
kybook58 said..."At the beginning of the episode, we see him making the string and weaving the tapestry. This must be an indication of a long time passing."
Yes! But further, Jacob meticulously weaving the tapestry symbolizes his eternal efforts to gently push the characters toward some final goal.
Also, in the screencaps section someone provided a translation of the Greek letters in the tapestry as a passage from Homer's Odyssey. Remember there are parallels between Desmond/Odysseus and their wives, Penny/Penelope. Is there a message here?
AMAZING analysis. This was great. Only one thing, though. The statue which we previously assumed was Anubis, now that we get a better look is obviously Sobek, who clearly has a crocodile head. Anubis has a jackal head.
Can't believe that you vozzek forget or didn't notice that Bernard and Rose are Adam and Eve (at least I'm 100% shure).
But, besides that, this, like everyone else of your anlysis, was completely awesome.
Keep up the good work and don't forget about us in the hiatus! :)
Zorro is Esau!!! We haven't seen him since we had our first glimpse at 'Esau' on Wednesday evening.
This explains the last few years on this forum!!!!
shoegirl927 - Richard mentions to Jack leaving the Island three times so far, twice to visit Locke. We don't (yet) know what the third visit was for. But it was 1977, so it was before his recruitment of Juliet with Ethan.
I'm sure that "the dark man (Esau?)" will be Smokey someday. Maybe he was exiled and transformed into smokey.
I'm also not convinced that Jacob is 'good'. Did he order the Purge? The murder of Danielle? The kidnapping of Walt, and the people on the lists? Or was it Anti-Jacob issuing these orders?
LOL @ "male symbols"
You mean Ankhs?
Great recap, I loved your take on everything.
The only part I disagree with is that we saw Ben's entire story. We dont know where little Ben is in the past. Didnt Jacob save his life in the temple? He's gotta figure it out that he killed the guy that saved him, right? haha, well you never know with Lost. Cant wait to see what happens!
Vozz - Juliet's flashback interrupts this scene, where she learns that sometimes two people love each other but aren't meant to be together... just like her and Sawyer. Suddenly everything's clear to her on this subject. I'd wondered why Juliet had the only flashback that didn't include Jacob, but that's because she wasn't ever necessary to the island's whole plan. She was someone Ben brought in for his own purposes only, and never really place in the grand scheme of things. She’s probably the more “lost” than anyone esle really.
Bens - I would also submit that like Hurley, she was totally cool and beyond redemption, having found that early on in childhood.
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Vozz - Sayid, close to death - close to unconsciousness... it's only then that he realizes he can never be saved. It doesn't really matter what Jack does, the sum of Sayid's past sins are just too great. Even if he makes it, he can never atone.
Bens - I disagree, a sinner can ALWAYS atone for past sins; they are never beyond the reach of God. Only blinding remorse such as Judas had, could ever kill a sinner, forcing suicide or whatever. The thing with sin though is that it can sear one’s heart making them unable to hear God’s call of atonement in their lives. Egypt’s Pharoah was such a figure. The more he argued with God and called God out through duplicated “miracles”, the more his darkened heart misled him to furthering abandoning God. I have never got this sense about Sayid. I have always felt that he too was sensitive to God’s atonement and wished for his release from sin. O’Flannery’s book speaks of those individuals who are least expected to find redemption, but find it suddenly, unexpectedly, in the worst of all personal conditions. So, I expect we’ll see this of Sayid as we have of all the Oceanic survivors.
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Vozz - The Incident was everything it needed to be, and it completely exceeded my expectations. The incident was a total [mess] for the intellectual Dharma-[ites]...
Bens - In the bible it speaks of the intellectuals and earthly-wise as being BEYOND salvation. They are too wise for God and by believing themselves to be so, actually show themselves to be spiritually foolish or unwise.
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Vozz - THIS could be the thing that changes everything... including the LOST logo, which for 100+ episodes has always been white on black, but is suddenly reversed to black on white. Hmmm.
Bens - Does this mean then that good will win over evil, or does this mean that we will see anti-Jacob (anti-matter Jacob?) have the high ground over Jacob for most of next season?
Vozz - I'm thinking the detonation of an atomic warhead would cause the following big problems:
1) Everyone would be thoroughly and completely dead.
2) The whole area would be a molten mess.
3) Radiation at the site would be deadly for a really long time.
To me, if that bomb went off things are looking pretty grim for Radzinsky, Chang, and the future of half the island. I can't see a way around that. I'm guessing that the whole plan to change things might've finally worked... something happened to create ripples way too big for even course correction to overcome. But again, that's me.
Bens - Question… Is it possible in Lost’s version of science that the electromagnetism could “hold-back” radiation from spilling all over the island and immediate vacinities? If so, than you would have the opportunity to “seal/cover” the leak with cement.
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Vozz - We've finally seen the entirety of Ben's character - from his beginnings as an innocent kid to the calculating, quick-thinking liar who ruled the island as an adult for so many years. In the end however, his emotions are reduced quickly back to that of a needy child, one looking only for some type parental recognition. Jacob never acknowledged Ben... whether he refused to do this or simply couldn't we really can't say. What we do know is the complete absence of Jacob caused a void in Ben's life, one that got filled with hatred and vengeance once Alex was killed. These fires were further stoked by his banishment after thankless years of obedient service.
Bens - this scene is soooo reminiscent of the Jesus’ death by betrayal and by wickedness….
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Vozz - This triggers kill-crazy Ben, the same unstoppable force we saw in Keamy's last moments of life. Jacob knew this. He knew those words would elicit Ben's killing response, and he stood there and took each blow of Ben's knife without trying to stop it or fight him off. The smoke monster couldn't kill Jacob directly, but instead provided Ben with a weapon, a motive, and a confrontation with his enemy. This was his loophole. Ben kills Jacob by choice, but I also believe that Jacob chooses to die here.
Bens - Again, very Jesus like in his judgment by the Sanhedrin and his crucifixion.
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Vozz - but keep thinking about the ending to the movie Legend. Darkness needs light, light needs darkness. One cannot exist without the other - it's both poetic and cool.
Bens - But only in this sinful and broken world. Some future day, in an apocalypse, light will reign without darkness ever again.
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Bens - Many thanks once again Vozzek69! I have thoroughly enjoyed your reviews!
Blindeyesnowsee
Great recap & good insights. Don't agree with you 100% but everything you say makes good sense.
Sadly, I think it would be totally within the realm of this show to have John Locke's entire life turn out that he really wasn't special, that he was simply a pawn in this battle of the deities.
That being said, remember when Widmore told Locke something along the lines of "There's a war coming, John. If you aren't back on the island, the wrong side is going to win." I think this means one of two things: either this means Widmore is firmly on the side of the Dark Guy, or he's on the side of Jacob and he knows that John still has a purpose, a true resurrection that is still to come. I personally lean toward the former, that he's an agent of the Dark Guy.
I remember the producers once saying in the context of Jacob (back when he was still an invisible cabin-shaking guy) that they didn't choose that name by accident. I looked up Jacob and it means "one who supplants." Per Webster's, to supplant is to supersede (another) especially by force or treachery. Another definition is to take the place of and serve as a substitute for especially by reason of superior excellence or power.
I'm sure that the meaning of the name Jacob originated with the Biblical story of Jacob tricking Esau out of his birthright. But what does it mean in the context of Lost?
What if... the producers are snowing us as usual, making it "obvious" that Jacob is the good guy and the Dark Guy is the bad guy. Just as they keep hitting us over the head with references to Widmore being the bad guy.
But what if we've got it backwards? What if Jacob is actually the bad guy, having stolen the Dark Guy's right to rule the island somehow. If that's the case, then in the end Widmore turns out to be good. His comment to Ben, "I know WHAT you are, boy" still creeps me out.
WTH did that mean? Does Ben have some kind of other entity possessing him just like Fake Locke, so that it's not really Ben? That would give some meaning to Widmore's comment. But what that would not explain is the obviously human behavior that Ben exhibits when he is goaded into becoming enraged enough to kill Jacob.
I'm bewildered. But nothing on this show is by chance. So there's something not quite right with Ben, for Widmore to have made that comment. And I also think there's also a reason Jacob was named after someone who stole someone else's pedestal.
Ian E said... "Please tell me when the 3rd time that Richard saw Locke. I remeber Richard seeing him when he was a baby and when he was a liitle boy? When was the 3rd time?" He didn't visit Locke 3 times, just twice. I think Vozz misheard it. He told Jack he had left the island 3 times, he didn't say they were all to visit Locke. The 3rd trip off-island was (I believe) to film Rachel & Julian to prove to Juliet that Rachel survived the cancer. Friday, May 15, 2009 2:54:00 PM
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Nope. Richard Alpert clearly says "I've gone off the island to see him 3 times and he didn't seem special to me"
So either we simply haven't seen the 3rd time yet or it's another mistake on part of the writers (which considering the large pile of them lately, it's certainly possible)
Did anyone else find Juliette's final episode to be a complete waste for her. I am sorry but as good as the episode was the writers compeltely dropped the ball on her character after season 3. She was amazing to begin with being very cold and calculated and all we wanted her to do was spill the beans on what the others were up to and then she became an 815 without delivering the goods.
To make matters worse, she was motivated the whole series by the fact she could find a way to save her sister. Somehow, which is yet to be explained, and you know it won't be, Ben saves her from cancer. But really that was the goal that Juliette really wanted. Yes, she wanted to save her sister, but she wanted to get back to the mainland.
The whole springing her and Sawyer's love affair was fine and dandy for a few episodes to pass the time, but seriously, is anyone out there convinced after a 1 minute flashback of her parents divorce that all she was worth was loving Sawyer and not being able to be with him.
Great season overall, but inconsistencies in characters continue to plague the show. Juliette joins the laundry list of characters that are completely under utilized.
I too like the Legend idea. The scales must be balanced, yin-yang, all that crap.
I also like the idea that Jacob was putting a piece of himself in all the losties he touched. So even though Jacob may have died the chosen 815ers will be able to carry out his plans now that they are imbued with "essence of Jacob".
Indeed it might even be the light at the end of the tunnel for whatever remnants are left of "good" Locke. And I have to believe that there is some sort of redemption planned for such a major character. Though it would be kind of sadistically funny to end his story with once a chump always a chump.
As always, Excellent recap & analysis, Vozzek.
I disagree on your theory of why MIB is taking form in the dead bodies. ("We also saw him appear in the forms of Yemi and Alex, but only after having scanned the minds of the people who knew those characters.")
I believe he's using Yemi, Alex, Christian & Locke's bodies b/c THEY WEREN'T BURIED. Remember what Amy said when her husband was killed - be sure to bury the body. The Others must have been aware of the evil that could happen if the body was left unburied, that's why the emphasized the burial of the dead.
Finally, here's my take on the ending of Juliet detonating the bomb: Flight 815 DOESN'T CRASH & lands safely in LA in 2004. However, the people that Jacob 'touched' (Hugo, Kate, James, Jack, etc) will need to be get on Ajira Flight 316 & help Ilana & Bram fight off Evil-Locke & save Jacob.
BOBofDOOM said:
>>I also like the idea that Jacob was putting a piece of himself in all the losties he touched. So even though Jacob may have died the chosen 815ers will be able to carry out his plans now that they are imbued with "essence of Jacob".<<
Hmm, I like that idea, too. For anyone who is into Harry Potter (and those who have already read all the books so that I'm not spoiling anything for you! if not, don't read the rest of my post)...
... Voldemort sort of did this with his "horcruxes" ... items that he put a bit of his soul into so that he could be reborn later. Maybe the chosen 815ers are the ones Jacob says are coming, and when they do he can be reborn through them? Kind of out in left field, but maybe.
For those who are discussing Egyptian gods, Norse gods, Greek gods... and our God. Don't forget that religions represent (and name) God(s) as they please and since LOST seems to be dealing with the "Good vs Evil" subject, all the religions are welcome and we will have reference from some of them.
It's the age-old battle. Good vs. evil. Light vs. dark. Jacob vs. Smokey. Vozzek vs. Zorro. Let the battle begin.
No, just kidding. I don't really have too much of a battle to fight with you this week, Vozz. But I'll respond to some of the things you had to say.
First of all, I think you're right on with your description of the struggle between Jacob and Smokey, and your characterization of each side. Jacob calls people to the island, hoping that they will change and redeem themselves. Smokey knows that people are essentially evil and cannot be redeemed.
>>>Jacob...believes in change. Maybe even an inner change, brought about by sacrifice and purity.<<<
See, this is the point that you've been missing before. This show isn't about people changing the timeline. The show is about people changing their hearts as they live through the unchanging timeline. You've claimed that if the timeline can't change, then the show will be boring. But that's not true, because the show isn't ultimately about the timeline, it's about people's hearts and motivation and character.
>>>When the dark man suggested "I'm going to find a loophole", I could've sworn he said "We're in the final loophole"... after replaying it a half-dozen times I'm going with the obvious first choice, but I also wonder if maybe it wasn't made to sound that way intentionally.<<<
I think you're reading way too much into that line. Just because a character mentioned the word "loop" doesn't mean that there's some kind of time loop. In fact, in this context, the word "loophole" doesn't really have anything to do with loops at all. It's just a phrase signifying a gap in established rules.
>>>A game that has played out over and over again, in almost exactly the same ways, only each time with different people of different eras.<<<
If you're looking for your loop, this is it. The same series of events continues to play out on the island--strangers come, they fall prey to their evil desires, things go badly, they are judged by Smokey, etc... But there's not a literal time loop in which the same people continue to repeat the same events. All of the motifs that the writers have used allude not to a literal time loop, but to the similarity of each new group of people who enter the series of events that continues to play out.
>>>What can we conclude here? It's obvious to me at least, that the guy in the dark shirt represents the smoke monster. This fits well with all the judging we've seen smokie do throughout the show. He abhors Jacob constantly bringing in all these tainted outsiders to violate the sanctity of his island.<<<
Yup, right on. I'm glad we agree on this point.
>>>The man in the dark shirt was somehow imprisoned in the cabin, kept there by the circle of ash. This is who we first saw say "Help me" when the cabin was introduced. Maybe Jacob tricked him in there and trapped him, and maybe Richard even helped. This could explain why the dark man could at first only appear in one of his most ancient forms - the smoke monster - because his physical being was stuck in the cabin behind the circle of ash. We also saw him appear in the forms of Yemi and Alex, but only after having scanned the minds of the people who knew those characters.Whatever the case, once the circle was broken the entity was allowed to leave. It took the form of Christian<<<
I think that this is a possibility, but the big question then is when the circle was broken. We saw Christian at the beginning of season 1. If the dark man was already released by then, why did he continue to use his non-corporeal state (Smokey) after that? Or, was the first incarnation of Christian actually Jacob, trying to lead Jack to the light side? But then Christian was taken over by Smokey once he was released. That might explain why Christian's clothing and demeanor seemed to change halfway through the series. Hmm, that was off the top of my head, but I kind of like that explanation.
>>>And so the dark dude/monster develops an elaborate plan: <<<
Yup, it was the biggest long con in history. I'm kind of excited to rewatch previous seasons now in order to see Smokey's long con take shape.
>>>Duplicate places, people, objects we've seen over and over again, like MaCutcheon's whisky? My theory has always been that the island's (or Jacob's) knowledge consists only of a finite amount of these things. What if it obtained these images and memories by reaching out and touching these characters, absorbing the major events in their lives, kind of like the way the smoke monster can scan people in it's own special way? There you go.<<<
I have no idea what you're talking about here, but I don't like it. I'm not sure how Jacob obtaining memories would effect the reality of these characters lives. Are you suggesting that their lives are just a projection of Jacob's mind, creating their reality based on his own knowledge? Sorry, but if that's what you're saying, you're going overboard. Those little things repeat just because that's an artistic way of producing a show. Consider those things little "easter eggs" left for the viewer to find. I seriously doubt there's any deeper significance to it than that.
>>>Totally cool. Classy and awesome. Just watching Sun picking that thing up flooded my head with memories of all the old characters we don't even realize how much we miss anymore.<<<
Agreed, that simple scene caused all of those wonderful memories from the early days to come flooding back to the mind. Very touching. It also served to illustrate just how far we've come from those simple days back on the beach.
>>>Personally, I think so. Although Miles made a good argument that perhaps the 815'ers showing up with the bomb is what actually *causes* the incident, it's pretty obvious that there was going to be an "incident" no matter what.<<<
I think you're defining The Incident too narrowly. It would seem that The Incident was always something bigger than the release of some electro-magnetism which pulled metal stuff down the hole. Yeah, that's a big deal, but I'm not sure if it's big enough to warrant "The Incident". But imagine you're Chang. You escape the pull of the electromagnetic energy only to turn back and see a huge explosion coming from the hole. Now THAT would be The Incident. See, I'm convinced that The Incident did and always had consisted of two events--the electromagnetic energy and the nuclear explosion. It's just that from the perspective of the survivors, like Chang, it all seemed to be part of one event. Only we as the audience realize that the ultimate explosion was caused not by the drilling but by Juliet.
>>>Now of course you could argue that the nuke itself was always part of the original incident. Maybe this is why so much cement is poured on top of the Swan site. Maybe this is why the area gets quarantined, and everyone stationed there gets fancy yellow suits. Maybe this is why Desmond needs to inject himself with serum every time he wakes up to Mama Cass. All decent arguments.<<<
Yes, exactly. We've gotten clues since season 2 that The Incident wasn't just about electromagnetism--it was also about nuclear radiation. Sayid even compared the place to Chernobyl for crying out loud. Now we've seen exactly how The Incident managed to be a combination of electromagnetism and radiation. It's an amazingly strong confirmation that WHH.
>>>However (and I'm definitely not an expert), I'm thinking the detonation of an atomic warhead would cause the following big problems: 1) Everyone would be thoroughly and completely dead. 2) The whole area would be a molten mess. 3) Radiation at the site would be deadly for a really long time.<<<
But what you and many others are forgetting is that they didn't set-off an H-bomb! They only set-off the detonator. The detonator just produces the smaller explosion which sets off the bigger explosion. That means the explosion, while still pretty powerful, would be much, much less destructive than an H-bomb. The people in the general vicinity would be killed, but even people fairly close by would escape pretty much unharmed--especially considering that the detonator went off in a deep, deep hole, which would lessen the effect even more.
>>>And while the possibility of them all landing safely in LAX sounds plausible, I don't know how it could fit into the storyline with a whole season left to go.<<<
This has always been the biggest evidence of the fact that things can't change. If things had changed, then they would land safely in LA and there'd be no season 6. Thus, we can already be sure that Daniel's plan didn't work.
>>>The most likely possibility is that our main characters wake up on the island in 2007. Maybe the release of magnetic energy flashes them back to current time a split second before they're evaporated. If so, who goes? Just the people from 815? Wouldn't Juliet go too? Rose, Bernard, Vincent? Big questions.<<<
Yup, this is exactly what's going to happen. Here's my prediction for the opening scene of season 6. Notice that Jack was knocked out before the bomb went off. We're going to have a close-up of his eye as he wakes up in the jungle (realizing his plan had failed) in the "present". He and the rest of the group will then reunite with Sun and Frank, and the battle will be on. I'm thinking it will only be the characters close to the bomb. Rose and Bernard are most off the show now. That seemed to be a pretty final send-off for them--they're happy and content and together.
>>>Although he's dead, I'm pretty sure we're going to see lots of Locke next season. Knowing he's someone else - and only someone else - would put a pretty negative spin on his character for a lot of people. <<<
Agreed. My thought is that Jacob purposely let Ben kill him, knowing that Ilana had brought Locke's body back to the island. He's now going to pull one on Smokey and inhabit the real body of the real Locke. Thus we're going to have Jacob/Locke (with all of Locke's memories and character intact) against Jacob/Smokey in the final battle.
>>>The best season of LOST had just ended with the best episode ever. <<<
Amen, brother.
"Does Ben have some kind of other entity possessing him just like Fake Locke"
I cant believe they never went back to show anymore of Ben's 'resurrection' but you could definitely think that Ben has some monster in him too