Things I Noticed – Meet Kevin Johnson
There are so many shows that are formulaic. Take CSI for example. It’s not a bad show, but you know someone’s going to get killed in the first two minutes, and someone’s going to get caught in the last two minutes. And in the other 56, you can count on impossibly clever sarcastic banter, DNA testing (with a turnaround time of an hour or two), and people who never go home until the crime is solved. LOST is the polar opposite of all that. LOST is Thunderdome – anything goes. The show has constantly evolved on every level; characterization, story-telling methodology, and the mass introduction of new characters. And while we’ve been distracted by all that, the show has very subtly gone from spending more time off-island than on island. Two seasons ago, when chicken-suited Jin warned us that everything was going to change, we had no clue just how much. But more than halfway through season four now, LOST is pulling it off by feeding us answers week after week and keeping us sated and happy. At least, that is, until the next time they decide to yank the rug out from under us. Things I Noticed:
No More Secrets… Unless you’re a Red-Shirt
Do they ride the swing set? Play backgammon? What do the red-shirts do while the cool kids have their exclusive little meetings? That’s probably one question LOST won’t ever answer for us. Arntz was onto all that and the writers quickly killed him off.
Sawyer’s smirk rocked the room this meeting – I think Ben even seemed a little alarmed by it. Looks were very big in this scene. Watch Ben’s face as he stares at Aaron… a baby born on the island, a reflection of his biggest failure. All the plans he made, all the people he manipulated - yet this was the one thing he couldn’t do. He smartly approaches Alex, the only one he could possibly convince of anything. He tells her the men on the Freighter are dangerous. ‘More dangerous than you?’ Ben pauses dramatically here, knowing he has to convince his daughter to go. ‘Yes, but your mother will protect you’. Foreshadowing, or does Ben know exactly what’s going to happen next? My guess is he already knows that Danielle and Karl are going to take bullets in lieu of Alex. Watch Danielle’s reaction as Ben says this… it’s almost as if she guesses the same thing. She glances back at him quizzically, looking twice before closing the door.
At this point it’s easy to think that the Temple-dwelling Others shot Karl and Danielle. After all, Ben did send them down that way (or did he?) It’s possible that Ben’s convenient little map was a crock of shit. He could’ve stamped the Temple logo anywhere – neither Alex nor Karl knew there even was a Temple site. I think the gun-happy freighter jocks did the shooting. Last I checked the Others didn’t have silencers, and if they’re still in league with Ben, they don’t kill ‘innocent people’. Going along with that, I find it hard to believe Ben didn’t know where and when the gun squad would show up. Judging from his track record of being ten steps ahead of everyone else, I’d say he knew precisely what was going to happen. Telling Alex they’d want to use her against him was Ben’s way of planting the seeds that saved her from being shot. He knew it was the only way to keep her alive, and quite possibly get her into a position where he could use her later on. Sneaky, underhanded, selfish… but when you’re playing chess with human pieces you sometimes have to sacrifice pawns to gain position advantage on the board.
I also think Danielle will live – that chick is tough as nails. If she does, you can bet your ass she’ll be going very Rambo II in her efforts to get Alex back, especially since the last time she lost her it was for about two decades. This possibly lends even more credibility to Ben’s future sight, with his words about Danielle protecting her.
The Rumors of my Death have been Greatly Exaggerated
Although Miles survived against vast spoiler speculation, I can’t say I was too surprised. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t dragged into the storyline just to speak with dead Naomi for two minutes while the camera was fixed on Jack and Kate anyway. No, there’s gotta be a really spooky Sixth Sense scene coming up soon - what with all the walking dead, vanishing specters, and creepy whispering. We need to understand why Abbadon slid Miles onto the fantastic four team before he’s allowed to eat a bullet (unless of course, he DUI’s).
I loved how Hurley put him right into season 4 check though: ‘Dude… we knew that like, forever ago’. Kinda like saying: ‘Hey, didn't you get the memo? Writer's strike - shortened season – end of the show coming up… more answers than questions this time around, you dig?’
Naomi’s got Plumber’s Crack
Yeah, we all noticed it. Some of us paused it, sniffed it, and studied high-definition screenshots of it. Still, it needed to be mentioned here, because it was certainly one of the things I noticed.
Can’t a Brotha Get Some Sleep?
Sucks to be Desmond. For years you get to wake up every 108 minutes to the swan timer beeping its brains out. Then you wake up naked in a jungle, wake up in your old apartment, wake up in 1996, and now you have to wake up to the Swan’s two-minute warning horn… and without the benefit of any Mama Cass. No canned peaches, either.
Since the dawn of LOST, we’ve seen recurring themes, people, places, and numbers. But the most interesting to me, have been the recurring objects. Some of them are innocuous, like chessboards and McCutcheon’s whisky. Others are a lot harder to explain, such as why the same Geiger counter in Locke’s season one apartment showed up in the Swan hatch with Desmond. Or why the alarm clock in Desmond & Penny’s flat sounded exactly like the countdown timer.
This episode, the Freighter’s klaxon horn is a 100% reproduction of the Swan’s two-minute warning siren. Sorry, but I’m not buying any more uncanny coincidences. If the island can have a conscience, an agenda, and even (if we are to believe Mr. Friendly this episode) an influence on people in the outside world… I give it enough leeway to have influence over the flashbacks, flash-forwards, and just about anything else in the show. Hell, I’d even say it went to Fiji and pulled Naomi’s pants down.
Michael Loves Himself a Good Fried Wanton
Unless the island’s been prank-ordering Michael some serious deliveries, he’s got a Chinese food addiction to rival Charlie’s heroin habit. Other than that no mystery here, only answers. We found out exactly what Michael and his boy have been doing since leaving the island at the end of S2: Walt’s been battling puberty from his grandmother’s protective fortress, and Michael’s been turning over a new leaf.
It’s extremely impressive that Michael had enough balls to tell Walt exactly what he did to get them off the island. I’m sure he never thought to see any of those people again, and could’ve cruised through fatherhood without ever being found out. Putting Walt in a place where he’d be better off, even though it meant he couldn’t see him anymore, was a very unselfish move - part one of Mike’s long redemption process. Unable to live with his actions, he was genuinely guilt-ridden to the point of rocketing himself into a dumpster. Step three was buying a gun and pulling the trigger – another key moment of indisputable penance. And finally, with his son already safe, Michael was willing to go back to the island - something worse than even killing himself - on a mission to keep his castaway-mates from danger.
Now hey, I’m not forgetting Mike gut-shot a pair of women who were just chilling out in the Swan hatch. But I am saying that Kevin Johnson is very different than the man who drove the boat off the island. By triggering the bomb sequence he passed his final exam - Ben was testing him to see if he was serious about redemption. At that moment Michael became ‘one of the good guys’ in Ben’s eyes. But then again, list-happy Ben might not exactly have 20/20 vision when it comes to what’s right and wrong.
Michael’s story filled in a hell of a lot of blanks for us. We learned that ‘some’ people can somehow leave the island, and I seriously doubt it was by submarine. Between the time the sky went purple and Jack/Kate/Sawyer woke up at the beating zoo, Friendly managed a trip to NYC and back, a nice penthouse suite, and maybe even a male escort. We got confirmation that Friendly is gay, although we could’ve surmised that from the way he throws a football and how light on his feet he can be in a darkened alley. Tom had been following Michael, and knew he’d been to the pawn shop to sell Jin’s watch. This was obvious when the first thing he said to him was: ‘Sir, you got the time?’
I fully believe the island does have an influence in the outside world, at least on the people who were unlucky enough to spent time on it. Jack not being able to jump at the end of last season and Michael not being able to die… the writers would have us believe the island isn’t done with these people yet and still need them for something. Perhaps this is akin to Locke surviving his gunshot wound and Mikhail surviving just about everything else. But as suspicious season four viewers, as soon as something like this becomes obvious to us we immediately reject it. We look for logical answers instead of supernatural ones. I’ve talked to people who think Friendly disarmed Michael and swapped his gun off for an identical one that had no firing pin. Admittedly that idea is kind of slick, but what’s even slicker is the way the producers slid that in there – casting doubt over what the true answer is. But this time, I think the more obvious answer is the correct one: the island can’t let Michael go just yet.
I think we also learned that Michael changed the ship’s radio frequency… the one that Naomi had to change back in order to re-establish contact with the freighter right before she died. They made a point of Minkowski showing him the frequency knob. He wouldn’t have destroyed the radio outright, because it was his only link to Ben. And obviously of course, Mike was the one sabotaging the ship and unlocking the sick bay.
But Wait - Was there Mama Cass after All?
If you still need proof that the island’s reach extends beyond its shores, Libby came to Michael in the hospital. They dressed her as a nurse to open up the possibility that Mike was hallucinating as he woke up, mistaking the real nurse for Libby, his crushing guilt manifesting itself in the form of one of the people he killed. But nah – it was Libby. And she showed up carrying blankets, just as she did when Michael drilled a bullet through her solar plexus.
The second time Libby appeared in the engine room, I thought I heard spooky whispering and music that sounded kinda like Mama Cass(?) I could be wrong on that, but the way LOST repeats everything, especially sounds, made me wonder. This time Libby was dressed in her death-garb, appeared for a split second, and then vanished like umbrella-less Harper, or underwater Charlie, or the rain-slicked Walt who appeared to Shannon. It’s almost like these people come from another place or time, dragging with them the residual sounds from wherever they truly are, and have only seconds to do or say what they need to. Interestingly, the only exception to this is Charlie’s visit to Hurley in the mental hospital. Not only did he show up completely dry on a sunny morning, but Charlie strolled casually up to his friend as if he had all the time in the world. He didn’t utter a spooky warning or act ghostlike at all – Charlie spoke (and dressed) with the laid-back mannerisms of a rock star. He didn’t speak backwards or suddenly disappear - at least not until Hurley dismissed him. Somehow I think it’s important to detach this one occurrence and treat it differently from all the other ghost-sightings splattered throughout all four seasons.
The Freighter Captain is soooooooo IN on Everything
After this episode, there should be little doubt that the Freighter captain knows a LOT more than just the fine art of desertion beatings. Not only is he totally in the loop, but I think he actually knew who his saboteur was long before Sayid used badass submission techniques to march Kevin Johnson into the captain’s quarters.
Watch Gault’s reaction as they present Michael to him - he’s not even the least bit surprised. In fact, he looks almost disappointed. I think he and Widmore knew exactly who Michael was from the very beginning, and were planning on somehow using that knowledge to find Ben. Sayid and Desmond just blew it for him. He intentionally called Johnson to “clean up this mess” to see if Michael’s ex-friends would approach him. Check out how he watches them over his shoulder on the way back to his quarters. I actually think Gault expected them to secretly buddy up together… he had no way of knowing that Michael committed double-homicide and was totally hated. The captain was completely caught off guard by Sayid turning him in.
I’d also bet the captain is in no big hurry to get the engine fixed whatsoever. His orders are to stay anchored off the coast of the island, going no closer than the time-storm, until his mission is accomplished. Part one of that mission seemed to be disabling the evil poison-gas dispensing power-station (rolling my eyes as I write that…) and part two might be the brute-force elimination of everyone else via wedgie-giving freighter-jocks.
Rough Postulations about Widmore
We know very little about Charles Widmore, and what we do know has come in bits and pieces. At this point, I’m going to speculate that Widmore has been the island before. I think he has to have. There’s no way I believe he’s just some billionaire yahoo looking for ultimate power or the fountain of youth. Without having been on the island and knowing first-hand what it’s capable of, he wouldn’t be searching with such absolute fanaticism.
As next week’s preview shows, Ben is genuinely afraid of him. I don’t think we’ve seen Ben afraid of anyone, and this gives Widmore more island-cred than we first might’ve realized. Maybe if Widmore has flashed through his lifetime the way Desmond and Minkowski have, he has the same type of advanced knowledge that Ben has. Knowing what, where, and when everything is going to happen might be the only weapon that could possibly defeat Ben/Jacob. In the two sides of LOST’s chessboard, these are the kings. They make the plays, they give the orders, and they always try to keep a few steps ahead of each other.
If what I just theorized turns out to be true, it might explain why he sent Desmond to the island. He knew Desmond would need to be there to push the button. What he might not have counted on was flight 815, the crash, and our main characters causing the implosion of the Swan hatch.
The Plane STILL Really Did Crash
Sorry, but Friendly’s little folder didn’t impress me at all. I don’t care how many photos of empty gravesites he shows us, or how many bogus invoices he can mock up using MS Word. There’s no way I believe that anyone planted a Boeing 777 loaded with rotting bodies (wouldn’t like, um, their heads and limbs fall off?) into the deepest ocean trench just to ‘convince’ people to stop looking for a crashed jetliner. As if they’d even look to begin with. When you arrange that little mission what do you list as the target search area? The lower half of the Pacific fucking Ocean? Yeah, okay.
And let’s not forget that the Lawnmower Man wasn’t just concerned about the ringless pilot. He was also dropping a toy plane into his fish tank to see how it would rest on the gravel floor. A crude and probably inaccurate little experiment, but the fact remains that Lapidus doesn’t just doubt the pilot’s identity – he doubts the whole validity of the crash footage itself.
On a side note, I watched the Orchid Video for the first time today (youtube). I’m not sure how much weight these outside-of-LOST clues hold, but if we are to trust them, the whole duplicate objects shifting in time thing really makes a giant impact. Watching the secondary #15 rabbit pop up in the future(?) from a place it had been in the past, while Hallowax was holding its twin counterpart could easily explain how there are two flight 815’s. The split would’ve occurred at the moment the aircraft hit the purple sky. One plane skidded into the beach of LOST island, while the other one crashed miles away in the trench. Why miles away? Because maybe that’s where it existed previously, however many hours ago into the past – perhaps the exact moment the pilot lost radio contact.
So check it out: The plane disappears from the current world, reappearing on the island. The absence of that matter (both the physical aircraft and the people inside it) needs to be accounted for in the real world. Hence, universal course-correction: the plane is placed on the ocean floor. Who’s in the plane? The original passengers, our main characters, except for the people who were “not supposed to be here”. Who are they? Hurley for one. Seth Norris, for another. Crazy stuff, but this is LOST.
“So he’s one of us now?”
No, sorry honey. You’re one of THEM.
Claire has it backwards. Ben hasn’t joined the 815 club, it’s more like Team Locke has joined the Others. The slow transition of how that happened has been the best plotline of season four. Next episode’s preview of Ben and Locke working frantically together had me grinning from ear to ear. He’s employing Michael, he’s got Sayid working for him in the future, and now he’s pushing into position on Locke. Not only is Ben free, but he’s a few steps away from leading his own little group once again. And if they hook up with Richard and crew (I’m crossing my fingers that this happens), it’ll be a much bigger group.
The way Ben manipulates things to his advantage makes him so awesome. He moves people and resources around the island, revealing knowledge only where and when it leads others into doing what he needs. As I watched him send Danielle, Alex, and Karl away to their ultimate fate, I was reminded sharply of something Locke said a long time ago, when he was describing the game Mousetrap (which happens to also exist in Ben’s rec-room) to that little boy in the store:
“Well you start with all these parts off the board. And then, one by one, you build the trap – shoe, bucket, tub – piece by piece it all comes together. And then you wait until your opponent lands here on the old cheese wheel. And then if you set it up just right, you spring the trap.”
This is the very heart of LOST, summed up for us in season one.
See ya in a month.
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77 Comments:
Good article. I'm not sure I buy the "plane placed on the floor of the ocean via course correction", but interesting nonetheless.
As far as Locke's group already having become the Others... Keep in mind that Ben only tells Alex about The Temple. Yes, this may be to set up Danielle and Karl, but he specifically says "It's not for them" referring to the rest of Locke's little group. They're not fully there yet, but I agree they're on their way.
Excellent thoughts as usual, although I disagree with the plane setup being a hoax. I think with Widmore's money, power, and influence, it could very well be pulled off successfully.
Decent enough review, though it sounds like you thought the episode was far better than most people did.
Thanks for the things you noticed. I always enjoy reading your thoughts. Now I have to wait another month. :-(
Jin never wore the chicken suit. There was some anonymous guy in the suit while Jin stood next to him.
I always enjoy your recaps , to get that lil extra out of each episode. And the big reveal this Episode ?
Toms a lil too friendly. Haha yes the gay character was outed. Did not see it coming at all, Altho i should have put the pieces together. Telling Kate in the showers laughing" Kate ...your not my type." so obvious yet very subtle. less subtle was toms gay highway patrolman moustashe in julettes last flashback. to toms off island fabulous pad with a giant spread complete with already paid for boy toys.
I'm just hoping this was was the gay character , waht if toms just European?
if a Jacob turns out to be Liberaces ghost that might be a major letdown ( might also be why he keeps undead daddy Shepard shoes so fastidiously clean)
soo keep an eye out for the bi sexual charactor now. and for mc gainey , i love you , you gay bastard!
Still reading the article, but can anybody please tell me weather Michael left the island with Jin's WATCH or not? I dont think this is even important but he wasn't wearing it the day he left. Just dont tell me it might've been in his pocket that would be so lame! Thanks!
When Michael is in the hospital and wakes up for the first time before seeing Libby he sees the monitor and a guy that is intubated. The second time the monitor looks different and the guy next to him has a normal oxygen mask. Is there any significance in that??? Seeing that reminded me of the 2 different picture frames in the house Miles visited on a previous episode.
And something else. When Michael is visited by the nurse we can see in the background a Xmas tree. If it's around Xmas time then it's impossible for Tom to be alive because he was shot dead on the beach BEFORE Xmas! Unless it's right after thanksgiving so I suppose it can make sense. But still I have the feeling there is a time hole that isn't well explained (from the time Michael escaped till he met Tom). And how did Tom go outside the island when, as far as I can remember, he was always seen taking action with the others??? (eg he was present on the Other's camp, he was present in Ben's surgery etc). When did he have the time to leave and by what means? (since Locke blew up the submarine)
I don't think there's a timeline issue since Tom didn't die until after Noami got to the island and obviously Tom visited Michael before the freighter left.
I enjoy your weekly "Things I noticed." I really liked this episode a lot!
Not buying the whole time warp thing for the plane still...sorry.
stathis- I also noticed the slight differences in both the other patient and the room when Michael wakes up the second time, that can't be an accident, but I'm not sure what exactly it may mean. Also, if the sky turning purple really did cause the side effects that Ben says it did (no one can get back to the island on the submarine) than how exactly does Friendly get back to be shot by Sawyer in Through the Looking Glass? Obviously, he leaves the island some time inbetween playing football with Jack and his fatal mission to the Lostie's camp, presumably AFTER Locke blew up the submarine as well. Hmm....
Also, something I noticed....does anyone have the sicking suspicion that Alex may be pregnant? I need to rewatch the interactions with Karl and Alex again, but there was definitely something not being said there
Read this
http://www.buddytv.com/articles/lost/more/lost-easter-eggs-meet-kevin-jo-17818.aspx
and you will see that there is a timeline issue
I wonder why Michael was back for two months and he chose not to tell his mother where he was. Why did he choose to keep the fact that he survived O815 a secret?
I too noticed that the second time Michael woke up in the hospital, the patient in the next bed was only wearing an oxygen mask. Maybe this was done to show that more time had passed than we thought. By that I mean it could have been a day or two later when he woke up the second time and by then, the patient next to him had already been extubated. Otherwise, I have no clue why there would be such a blatant difference.
Who thinks the man in the hospital looked like Alvar Hanso?
this is the only recap i ever read and i love the insight...
i understand how CSI is the same show...just like House, someone is deadly ill House goes against ethics and is wrong and almost kills the patient before getting it right the second time....same story everytime...i love the acting in that show but had to stop watching it since its the same thing, and LOST is new EVERY week, i love it!
Vozzek, I gave your review 5 stars because it deserves it. You pointed out many things that I honestly didn't notice; I haven't gone back and watched the ep again. I have one bone to possibly pick w/ ya, though: It seems like you pretty much copied my "Prestige of LOST" from the Theories section on Dark's site here. If so, please give proper credit. I always try to when referencing someone else's work. Thanks.
I, too, am with Hatebox on MKJ as a whole. I think that 4.08 was probably one of the most disappointing eps this season, even despite the cool moments (the Island's power in the outside world revealed, Libby's appearance to Mike, Mr. Friendly's return and an explanation of Kate not being his type, etc). To me, at least, sooooo much more could've been done w/ this episode: the moments between Mike shooting himself in the arm, Ben escaping, and when Jack & crew find him stumbling out of the Hatch was a perfect place to have him to tell Mike that even though he was being let go he wasn't scot-free (someone else in the chat said that to me, forgive me for not remembering who). If not that, at least have them catch up w/ Mike on the boat by using their sub (remember that Mike leaves end of Season 2, and the sub isn't blown up by Locke until mid-Season 3). We really needed more about how Michael and Walt actually got back to NY too… It seemed like *poof! Back in good ol’ New York again*
Of all the shows on television, and for all the supernatural and unexplained things in it, Lost has been very careful to have us suspend our disbelief and used out-and-out plot devices very rarely (considering its content), but I think in this matter we were left wanting. All of us know that the little gas tank on that boat wouldn’t have made it back to the States from the South Pacific, and that even if it did someone like the Coast Guard would’ve picked those two up. Mike would’ve been hard pressed to give them the answers they wanted to hear to be let in past Customs/Immigration.
And besides all that, it doesn’t seem like he’d have enough time to make it all the way there to NY, drop off Walt and try to kill himself, get instructions from Tom, and get to Fiji as Kevin Johnson if he’s only been gone as long as the show’s timeline indicates. Mike and Walt leave on November 27th (in Live Together, Die Alone), and Naomi crashes on the Island on December 17th (in Catch-22), so at most he would’ve had 20 days before coming back (if we assume that the freighter got there the day Naomi took off and crashed her helicopter), and less to get to Fiji and be hired as the freighter’s deckhand, unless of course other factors were in play. Maybe the 325 heading Ben sent him on sent Michael back in time long enough to get all that accomplished, or perhaps a bigger, more well fueled and speedy boat was what Be meant when he said “… you’ll find rescue.” Point being, we wanted — nay, needed — to see how Michael actually returned to the outside world.
Also, was it just me or did things end too abruptly? I fully was left feeling there should've been another 15 minutes or so of story after seeing Alex put her hands up. Maybe that was a result of things being mostly in Mike's flashback, but it definitely felt and fell short. Kinda like the whole "40 seconds of blank tape" that Damon joked about (referring to the Sopranos ending) at Comic-Con, but real...
~ Jeff
a.k.a. Keeping Pace
Stathis -- thanks for the buddytv link about the timeline issue. I agree with the post and think that Tom went to see Michael during days 74-80.
I looked at what Ben was wearing when he called Michael on the boat, and they're the same jammies that he wore during Man from Talahassee. That episode takes place on on day 81.
So Michael leaves on day 67
Between days 74 and 80 Tom visits New York, sees Michael, picks up Cooper, and returns to the island
By day 81, Michael is on the boat and gets a call from Ben.
Seems like a short time for Michael to find rescue, alienate Walt, get an apartment, run his car into a dumpster, recover, and get to the freighter, but this is Lost and a lot can happen in a few days.
It only took Locke a week to have Sawyer kill Cooper, bring the body to Ben, meet Jacob, get shot, talk to taller ghost walt, kill Naomi, take over New Otherton, give Miles a grenade for breakfast, etc., etc.
vizzek- Nice. I'm with you on the 'fake plane', which I think I mentioned last week. Hardly anyone seems to realize how crazy big the Pacific ocean is, and how insane the idea of faking a 777 with 324 passengers in the wrong ocean is.
I don't think 815 could have ever, ever been anywhere close to where it was found. It'd be like a flight from NYC to London being found off San Diego.
Jeff- The show is not implying that Michael & Walt motored back to Manhattan. They made it into the shipping lanes in the Pacific is all and found rescue there.
"...One plane skidded into the beach of LOST island, while the other one crashed miles away in the trench. Why miles away? Because maybe that’s where it existed previously, however many hours ago into the past – perhaps the exact moment the pilot lost radio contact..."
"Miles away?"
Do you know that the Sunda Trench is about 5'000 miles away form the flight path?
"That's where ist existed previoulsy?"
What? The Sundy Trench is one of the deepest trenches of the northeastern INDIAN OCEAN! It doesn't lie in the Pacific...
@Mary:
"...Hardly anyone seems to realize how crazy big the Pacific ocean is, and how insane the idea of faking a 777 with 324 passengers in the wrong ocean is.
I don't think 815 could have ever, ever been anywhere close to where it was found. It'd be like a flight from NYC to London being found off San Diego..."
You're right! It's insane the idea to faking a 777 in the wrong ocean!!!
Jeff I'm totally with you on the abruptness of the ending. The entire last bit showing Danielle, Alex, and Karl just felt out of place for some reason.
I must be the only one who didn't see the Tom being gay thing coming. I had heard people speculate about it but frankly Kate isn't my type either so that comment went right past me. Now if he had said that about Juliet maybe.
That being said I do believe the crash was staged, at first I thought Ben was behind it but from what we've gathered so far with Abbadon's "there were no survivors" combined with Friendlies folder of death I think you can safely assume Widmore is behind it. As for why, wasn't his company involved with the Dharma Initiative? If so it would explain why he knows how much he knows and why he is going after Ben and his Others. A man capable of the Purge is capable of anything.
When you mention that Widmore has been on the island, it only helps the theory that Widmore is part of Dharma or was and therefore knows about the island and why he wants BEn, after all he did kill almost all of Dharmas people.
Hey all, Happy Easter (eggs) -
I disagree with the plane setup being a hoax. I think with Widmore's money, power, and influence, it could very well be pulled off successfully.
Instead of asking yourself whether or not it could be pulled off, you should first ask yourself why. If your answer is the typical "Because Widmore/Hanso doesn't want anyone else to look for it", stop right there. Because NO ONE would be looking for a plane that left Australia and never landed in Los Angeles. Then ask yourself WHO would be looking for such a plane. Oceanic? Do they have a lost airliner trawler fleet? C'mon. The whole thing is weak.
That being said I'm not 100% sold on my own plane-on-the-ocean floor theory either. But I am pretty sure it wasn't put there by Ben or Widmore.
Jin never wore the chicken suit. There was some anonymous guy in the suit while Jin stood next to him.
You got me there. I totally forgot about Hurley's boss in the suit, (and boy that dude was c-r-e-e-p-y) - I had just remembered Jin's words.
When Michael is in the hospital and wakes up for the first time before seeing Libby he sees the monitor and a guy that is intubated. The second time the monitor looks different and the guy next to him has a normal oxygen mask. Is there any significance in that???
It's extremely significant - as significant as Ben's food rearranging itself in his fridge, the Swan hatch changing around, and the frame-switch you mentioned. But most people will still chalk it up to 'set error'. :)
Vozzek, I gave your review 5 stars because it deserves it. You pointed out many things that I honestly didn't notice; I haven't gone back and watched the ep again. I have one bone to possibly pick w/ ya, though: It seems like you pretty much copied my "Prestige of LOST" from the Theories section on Dark's site here. If so, please give proper credit. I always try to when referencing someone else's work. Thanks.
Jeff, I just read your theory and gave it five stars myself. Not sure when you wrote it, but it was definitely before me because I wrote all this stuff this morning.
I honestly don't read much here or on any other LOST site (mostly a time thing). After every episode, I try to get my thoughts out as soon as I can - that way it's the things I noticed and me just relaying the things someone else has. I love to read the episode comments, but I try to put out my review first. Admittedly I sometimes even rush through the last few paragraphs because I'm itching to see what everyone else thinks.
In any event, your theory and my theory are 99% the same. If I'd read it beforehand I would certainly have given you credit. Hell, I give you credit anyway. I think the Orchid vid must've clicked the same tumblers in your head as it did mine.
Also, was it just me or did things end too abruptly? I fully was left feeling there should've been another 15 minutes or so of story after seeing Alex put her hands up
I couldn't possibly agree with this more. The ending actually sucked for me. When I saw the LOST logo, I was like 'wait, that's it?' I knew not to expect a cliffhanger because the writer's strike was unexpected, but this episode definitely didn't have a closed feeling to it.
Hardly anyone seems to realize how crazy big the Pacific ocean is, and how insane the idea of faking a 777 with 324 passengers in the wrong ocean is.
Seems like hardly anyone = just you and me. Hehe.
I SO disagree that Michael's actions have been redeeming. With the exception of him going undercover for Ben, and that's ambiguous.
I think whoever has children will agree, you don't burden them with the truth, if the truth is ugly, and telling them serves no other purpose than you unloading.
And then, when your kid is all jacked up emotionally, you demand to see them because it's "your right"?
You also don't try to kill yourself, and pin a note with their name on it, on your chest. Talk about emotional crippling.
THEN to try and kill yourself again because you can't see your kid/your kid can't see you. Michael is selfish, selfish, selfish.
Even his redemption comes at too high a price. I mean who volunteers to kill an entire group of people?
Out of the oodles of answers they gave us and secret telling, the only ones we really didn't get were what exactly happened as he left the island. But obviously it would probably have been boring and the fact that they couldn't film it with walt.
Second, they didn't reveal why he can't talk about his experiences. I assume this is the same reason none of the Oceanic 6 can reveal anything, and I assume we'll find that out in the finale.
I mean, what else could they possibly have revealed?
After two horrible filler episodes to have an episode go somewhere and fill us in with answers is amazing.
Definitely looks to be a great last 4.5 episodes of the season.
Nice review vozzek. I also agree with you... How the hell could the crash be staged? I suspect there is some rift of sorts and the phenom also explains the visions, ghosts and whispers. I suspect that Ben's closet (the wardrobe)or the Temple is somehow a way out for the O6. I am guessing the freighter gets blown up (explosives are still there) and escape happens in the same manner a polar bear wound up in Tunisia. You are absolutely correct about so many little things changing, moving, being heard,in/from place to place since season one. This show is genius. Thanks for all your insight!
Isn't this like the 14th time that Vozzek has mentioned the 'Everything's going to change, Hugo' scene from Everybody Hates Hugo? Seems like someone is stuck in a time loop.
Because NO ONE would be looking for a plane that left Australia and never landed in Los Angeles.
You really think so? I can't think of any plane crash in recent history especially that of a major carrier that Oceanic would be where there haven't been extensive recovery efforts.
Then ask yourself WHO would be looking for such a plane. Oceanic? Do they have a lost airliner trawler fleet? C'mon. The whole thing is weak.
Well you mentioned Oceanic for one but also the FAA and Australian authorities. It would be a public relations disaster to have a plane disappear in flight and not go looking for it.
If the island can have a conscience, an agenda, and even (if we are to believe Mr. Friendly this episode) an influence on people in the outside world… I give it enough leeway to have influence over the flashbacks, flash-forwards, and just about anything else in the show. Hell, I’d even say it went to Fiji and pulled Naomi’s pants down.
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Hehehe. That's hilarious man. :)
Claire has it backwards. Ben hasn’t joined the 815 club, it’s more like Team Locke has joined the Others. The slow transition of how that happened has been the best plotline of season four. Next episode’s preview of Ben and Locke working frantically together had me grinning from ear to ear. He’s employing Michael, he’s got Sayid working for him in the future, and now he’s pushing into position on Locke. Not only is Ben free, but he’s a few steps away from leading his own little group once again. And if they hook up with Richard and crew (I’m crossing my fingers that this happens), it’ll be a much bigger group.
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I'm not sure if was Vozz or Luhks, but I remember someone earlier in the season pointing out after the second episode how Team Locke was transistioning into the 'Others'. How they are the ones skeptical about newcomers and being the bully.
Amazing that Ben can truely make Team Locke the other Others. Lead the crew that inevitably saves the island.
The one thing I STILL don't understand is... why the hell the others hated the 815ers so bad in the first place. Maybe just a bit overprotective of the island? Now that Ben knows that Locke and Michael (and most of the rest of them) do really care about the island and at least about each other, that he can use them and trust them to help him protect the island.
interesting thoughts but i don't agree with the plan thing. I really think it is just a Hoax plane. It makes sense.
And i don't agree that the Island affects the flashbacks we see, i think that is just tooo far fetched. The Flashbacks are there for the viewer, that's it. It isn't 'controlled' by the Island. Odds are the character's who's episode it is arent even thinking about the flashback. Its just to show a little back story. Least that's my thoughts.
You said that Widmore has to have been to the island before and is looking for it again; maybe this is why his company funds an around the world sailing race, in hopes that someone that enters will come across the island.
2 bones to pick:
1. I don't think Ben engineered the shooting of Karl and Danielle. I think they were shot by Keamey and Omar. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sayid asked where the copter was and was told Lapidus was on an errand, and Keamey and Omar ain't around, either. I think the AK-skeet shooting scene was significant, that the invasion has begun, and that Karl and Danielle are the first victims (but Danielle is just down, not out). Now, possibly Ben was aware of that and sent them out knowing they'd be target fodder, but I'm not buying him putting Alex that close to the line of fire.
and 2. it's Petula Clark, not Mama Cass.
Otherwise, great insights as always.
For your information: [url]http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-748-14.html[/url]
To daniel: Michael's left arm was in a cast, so there's no real way to see if he was wearing the watch of not.
Vozz, your TIN's are the best!
Every time I read one, I think we watched two different shows!
Thanks!
P
The Fkn Reverend said... You said that Widmore has to have been to the island before and is looking for it again; maybe this is why his company funds an around the world sailing race, in hopes that someone that enters will come across the island. Sunday, March 23, 2008 3:03:00 AM
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Well many people inc myself have theorized that Widmore sent Desmond on the race either in hopes that he'd hit the island or that he KNEW he'd hit the island.
One of the two. And I wouldn't doubt either.
Doesn't seem to help him much unless it's an underhanded way to get him to perform an incredibly boring sleep-jarring task for a few years.
I love the scene where Michael crashes the car to the Mama Cass song. That's so LOST. Just like the Desmond in the hatch in the beginning of season 2.
Re. the Orchid making Vozzek's and Jeff's tumblers click the same way, I don't think it was just you two. (Well, I know there are at least three of us!) I think that there are only so many ways you can spin this tale, and they get fewer every episode.
deilcateflower- As a parent I would agree that you don't dump the crap onto your kid to assuage your own guilt. But I believe Michael believes it's best for them both if they keep their identities secret, and that means lying about the plane and the island. Walt would want to know why they can't send rescue crews out. I think it's admirable that Michael told him the truth about why they have to keep it quiet- because he killed for their freedom. What else could he tell him? What other excuse could you have for NOT sending rescue?
I think many people missed the horror of 'Three Minutes' for a parent. If my child begged me to rescue him from abductors, I would kill everyone on that island with my bare hands if i had to.
Surly- I agree about Keamy and Omar but I think it's possible they could be working for Ben. And what's Petula Clark? In Michael's car? That's Mama Cass. Or do you mean behind Libby?
Vozzek, I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoy your reviews of LOST, especially this particular one. However, some people, myself included, intentionally do not watch the previews for next week because we do not want to have any thing from the next episode to be spoiled. So if it is at all possible, could you please try not to include information about the next episode (which includes anything from the preview).
Thanks Vozzek . . . . you're awesome,
Chachi
It was nice to see Libby again, but why did Michael only see her in his remorseful mirages. Guess he doesn't feel bad about AnaLucia =]
Pretty Kinky for LOST when Tom/Mr.Friendly (after kissing his man and sending him away) said, "I don't make it to the mainland too often, so when I do I like to indulge myself.."
Yuck! Then he bit a berry of some sort - lol.
Thanks Vozzek ~ you're good.
Is it just me, or is Lost starting to feel a little cliche?
The last episode with the flashforward/back to trick you into thinking it was the same time was a little cheeky and seemed a bit out of place.
And the meeting at the start of this episode with Locke and co seemed very scripted to me - once the audience knows who the man on the boat is, Ben feels fine just telling everyone who it is (usually he wouldn't just blurt it out like that), and then with Sawyer 'filling in' who Michael is, it just annoyed me.
But every episode is still SO surprising! There are so many 'stunned' moments in every episode now, especially the last few with all the people (potentially) dying (Claire might die [kate has her baby], Jin might die, Karl and Danielle could be dead).
For me, Lost seems to be improving in some places but not in others, but thats just my opinion.
Delicateflower, some of the things you said make me look at Mike's redemption in a different way. All good points. I still think he's genuine about trying to redeem himself, though.
Isn't this like the 14th time that Vozzek has mentioned the 'Everything's going to change, Hugo' scene from Everybody Hates Hugo? Seems like someone is stuck in a time loop.
I think it's the 19th. C'mon, keep up! ;)
I can't think of any plane crash in recent history especially that of a major carrier that Oceanic would be where there haven't been extensive recovery efforts.
Sorry, there's no reasonable way to conduct recovery efforts at sea when your target search area is a) GIGANTIC and b) In the middle of the vast, deep, stormy, and volatile Pacific Ocean.
Well you mentioned Oceanic for one but also the FAA and Australian authorities. It would be a public relations disaster to have a plane disappear in flight and not go looking for it.
The FAA, Australian authorities, Hawaiian authorities... combine them all together and they won't even have 1% of the required equipment or manpower to come anywhere near finding that wreck. Not unless the pilot radioed his exact location as the plane went down, and we all know that didn't happen.
Not trying to be a jerk - I agree there might be a token search, but it would be called off quickly.
I'm not sure if was Vozz or Luhks, but I remember someone earlier in the season pointing out after the second episode how Team Locke was transistioning into the 'Others'.
It was me (could've been Luhks too, dunno). I'll try not to mention it 19 times. :)
The one thing I STILL don't understand is... why the hell the others hated the 815ers so bad in the first place. Maybe just a bit overprotective of the island?
I wouldn't say they hated them, but they took what they needed according to Ben. Once they had most of Ben's list, they were even content to leave the 815'ers where they were as long as they didn't cross Friendly's line.
1. I don't think Ben engineered the shooting of Karl and Danielle. I think they were shot by Keamey and Omar. Now, possibly Ben was aware of that and sent them out knowing they'd be target fodder, but I'm not buying him putting Alex that close to the line of fire.
This is why Ben told Alex "if they know who you are they'll use you against me". It was his twisted, manipulative, Ben-like way of saying "Hey, if the bullets fly, make sure you tell them who you are - they won't shoot you then". Ben was protecting her.
If my child begged me to rescue him from abductors, I would kill everyone on that island with my bare hands if i had to.
Mary, you're scaring us. :)
However, some people, myself included, intentionally do not watch the previews for next week because we do not want to have any thing from the next episode to be spoiled. So if it is at all possible, could you please try not to include information about the next episode (which includes anything from the preview).
I didn't realize the preview was off-limits, but I'll keep from mentioning stuff like that. I don't know how you keep yourself from watching the previews though - that's some serious self-control.
"I don't make it to the mainland too often, so when I do I like to indulge myself.."
Yuck! Then he bit a berry of some sort - lol.
Yeah, the berry thing after the man-to-man action was a little over the top! I laughed at it too.
Thanks for the great review. I look forward to your's most of all each week.
I totally agree with you about the fake crash. What occurred to me is the simple fact that Ben says Widmore did it while Widmore says that Ben did it. I'm thinking it's probably because neither did and they assume the other is responsible. What do I think? The island did, and it's not a fake any more than the duplicate Rabbit 15 is a fake.
Tom's appearance on the mainland also puzzled me. There hardly seems to be time for him to be there and in all the scenes he's in during the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas back on the island...unless he's also a duplicate? Could be, who knows with Lost. But this would take care of all the time line problems wouldn't it? I'm thinking this would be a good use of a new plot device that was hinted at in the Orchid orientation film.
It was a disappointing episode overall. With all the massive hype leading up to it, it felt completely ordinary with so many unsatisfying moments. And the cliffhanger ending just blew it. Didn't got me excited at all. I expected a lot more than this. It seems LOST just can't recover. But still, it was a passable episode, not a bad one. Good to see Michael back though.
Nice insight once again! I'm envious of the season connections. For some reason the long breaks in the show have almost killed it for me as far as stretching back to S1 or even S2. I have all three seasons on DVD but I'm too lazy to sift thru all the evidence. That and Lostpedia is WAY too much overload for me.
I love the Mousetrap connection and I DO recall that scene...of all the scenes that one does indeed sum it up! Nicely played!
Look forward to another post in a month or so...take care!
I think people are missing something here in regards to how the 'staged' plane was found.
Check out find815.com. The game there explains how the plane was 'accidentally' found while the Christiane I was looking for the Black Rock and other sunken ships. Charles Widmore is obviously behind this whole charade. He planted the fake Oceanic 815 and then pretended to accidentally find it while hunting for sunken ships..
I'm so glad that someone else pointed out how horribly scripted the opening scene back in New Otherton (with Locke, Ben, etc), in which Sawyer explained in GREAT detail who Michael is (in case they all forgot in the past month or so). It just seemed very unnatural.
...and speaking of the whole New Otherton opening scene, since they've made such an all-fired big deal of how dictatorish Locke is getting, wouldn't it have been nice to see what persuaded him to suddenly include everyone in a strategy meeting?
The scenes they write purely for set-up are so obviously that, so badly done. They take the viewer right out of the story. It reminded me of the whole "Locke's speech" scene in Expose. Bad bad bad.
all the people talking about timeline errors dont seem to be considering the fact that time is different on the island. so if it's christmas on the island it doesnt necessarily mean it's christmas in manhattan aswell ;]
Vozzek69: I'm not sure if was Vozz or Luhks, but I remember someone earlier in the season pointing out after the second episode how Team Locke was transistioning into the 'Others'. It was me (could've been Luhks too, dunno). I'll try not to mention it 19 times. :)
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No, actually, it's very relevant and as you said a very good storyline.
It's just coming together more and more.
I say, keep mentioning it :)
Wasn't the first time Michael "woke up" in the hospital the time he saw Libby? Why would anyone believe something he saw in this vision - like what the patient in the next bed looked like - represented reality?
I don't pretend to know the technology of an airliner's "black box" but I'm pretty sure one purpose of having one is so that the plane can be quickly located if it goes down in water. I don't imagine it would take much time with the kind of ultrasensitive tracking gear available these days to find one, no matter how big the initial search area might have been. I don't doubt for a minute that there was an effort - a massive one - to find 815. If the plane "really" crashed on the island the black box would not be "visible" to the searchers, and the fake plane doesn't have a black box because it's on the freighter. I could have sworn the Pilot said the plane was 1000 miles off course, but not in which direction. It would have been visible to tracking stations right up to entering the island's electromagnetic disruption field.
No one has mentioned that the bomb that Michael "set off" was similar to the biblical story of Abraham and Isaac. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son for God, but when he was about to commit this act, he was stopped. Same with Michael. He was willing to sacrifice everyone, including himself, on the freighter as a TEST of his commitment. Perhaps the bomb didn't work because it involved Michael's death as well, and we all know, "he has work to do."
"I could have sworn the Pilot said the plane was 1000 miles off course, but not in which direction"
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He said he turned around and was flying back toward Fiji.
Someone mentioned Find 815. I have a totally opposite interpretation of that ARG. I think it proves that the plane is real and Widmore knows it and wanted to hide it. Who owned that briefcase monogrammed AMM that had the coordinates of the plane in it? I think it was stolen and the location was leaked to Sam, to expose the coverup of the real plane. Why would Sam believe it was a real, undiscovered crash site when someone fed him the exact location beforehand? That's impossible. His only option is to think it's faked and draw media attention to it, which is exactly what Widmore doesn't want, because the only way it can be in that ocean is by mystical means. Just my opinion!
Yeah, so I wanted to know how Michael and Walt got back to NYC too. Same as how I want to know how Tom fit in a little trip. I'm guessing there is a reason to leave us all in the dark on those issues. It isn't a minor issue that TBTB can get away with leaving unresolved.
In my view, Ben saying Widmore faked the crash and vice versa is evidence that one of them did do it, not that they just assume the other did it. These men KNOW things, they don't assume. I just can't buy the 2 planes/course correction theory.
Good stuff, Vozzek. I see you've been reading some of my commentary here and on Lostpedia.com as well. Let's call it a mutual admiration society.
This Mouse Trap game board, let's not forget, is owned by the most powerful mouse in history.
Mus uni non fidit antro
Abigail said... Yeah, so I wanted to know how Michael and Walt got back to NYC too. Same as how I want to know how Tom fit in a little trip. I'm guessing there is a reason to leave us all in the dark on those issues. It isn't a minor issue that TBTB can get away with leaving unresolved.
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I have a feeling that sometime during the last 5 episodes we'll find out why they can't talk about their time on the island.
It's probably tied into how the O6 get chosen and why they leave, etc.
So, I assume they left that unanswered for purposes of telling all of that at the same time (probably the finale)
jake 3988--i completely agree.
wow! Lots of fodder for thoughts over the hiatus. Vizzek69 - good one!
My theory: there is no plane in the trench. The submarine footage of the wreckage was just as phony as it looked in the broadcast; a computer generated forgery, a digital hoax. Why put a plane at the bottom of the ocean, when you can more economically mock it up in a computer, with "fish tank" miniatures composited in where appropriate. Widmore or Ben commissioned a private black-ops "ILM" to create a necessary illusion for governments, media, and the public.
"You know those nuts that think the moon landing was faked. Well this is like that, only real" --Frank Lapidus
Did anyone else notice that Karl was wearing a hearing aid, or something, when he was shot?
What's that all about? The set was quiet, they were even using silencers. Thus it shouldn't be a production error - so ... why would Karl be wearing something up his ears?
(and on a side note, I also think Danielle is unlikely dead).
@Mary:
"Find 815" is not in canon.
LINDELOF: We cannot say that any of that stuff in ''Find 815'' is in canon. The Maxwell Group is something that Hoodlum came up with. Last fall, we presented them with the idea that, at the beginning of the second episode, a salvage ship was going to find wreckage of Oceanic 815. From there, they came up with a story — and backstory — that led up to that event. [Some background: Prior to the strike, the producers and ABC's marketing team hired a company in Australia called Hoodlum to execute ''Find 815.'']
CUSE: We provided the creative framework but didn't oversee the execution.
Thank god someone else still believes that the "other" Oceanic 815 wasn't staged. It just seems like they're ramming all this "it's faked, it's faked" down our throats, but it still doesn't seem very...Lost-like.
I still love your idea that the pilot down there is actually Frank, and Hurley's probably not on it. Love it :]
Awesome Post Vozzek...I just have a couple of questions/comments.
#1 I am so glad you noticed the plumber's crack too, that was hilarious.
#2 What did you mean by except the people that were not suppose to be there? Can you elaborate more on this..."Who’s in the plane? The original passengers, our main characters, except for the people who were “not supposed to be here”. Who are they? Hurley for one. Seth Norris, for another. Crazy stuff, but this is LOST."
#3 I agree with you that Ben set it all up. One thing I am surprised has not been mentioned was how Ben stared when Karl was touching Alex. I think Ben is still scared of Alex's getting pregnant. I am not sure who is behind the shooting, but one thing's for sure Ben wanted Karl dead, to save Alex. But I will not be surprised if its too late & Alex is already pregnant.
Thanks again for a great post!
simutiger- I know Find 815 isn't canon. I was responding to layne666's post that said that Find 815 showed that the wreck was obviously faked by Widmore.
Lindelof provided the creative framework for it and for Via Domus, also not in canon. They've said they can't watch all the little details of these side things anymore so they tag them 'not in canon'. I don't think that necessarily means the info in them is meaningless. It's all pretty cohesive, actually.
@delilah --
Yeah, not only did Karl touch Alex, he HAD HIS HAND ON HER ASS when Ben glared at him. I missed that in the first viewing, since it was sort've an overwhelming episode. But there's a clear shot that's intent is to show a sexual touch by Karl to Alex. Then Ben immediately tells Alex, Karl and Danielle about his plan to keep them all (HA) safe at the Temple.
You never touch a guy's daughter, even if you're married, around him. Most boys learn this around age 14 -- the hard way, when the teenage girlfriend tearfully tells him she can't see him anymore, even at school because DAD SAID SO.
It's one of the oldest stories in the dramatic canon.
--
But while I don't think Ben arranged the killing, I think it was Keamey, Omar and the Kahana Gun Club, flown in by Frank, I think Ben knew full well where they were going to land and timed it exactly so that the two parties would collide. He probably hoped Rousseau would kill a few Freighter guys before getting killed. And that means that Ben taken the chess game to the level of using his Queen for defense -- a desperation move.
VOZZ-man,
A couple things you pondered that I think no one responded to, that are some of the things I know/noticed.
1. When Libby showed up before the ACME bomb went off, there WERE some 'whispers' for sure, and also the 'Getting stronger everyday, getting better everyday' lyrics from the joy ride Mike took in his green hooptie.
2.In regards to Widmore being on the island before... I don't remember where I saw this, but it was during the break between seasons 2 & 3. I saw a ABC LOST made video that specifically stated that 'Widmore Contruction' was the company that built ALL of the stations on the island for DHARMA back in the 70's.
Side note, Widmore also makes pregnancy tests (the one Sun used). And Widmore also has a business partnership with Paik Heavy Industries 'owns VERY large shipping vessels'(Sun's Dad's Company)
I think Mr. Paik and Mr. Widmore are buddies in this search for the island so they can exploit it, and get the return on their investment that they made back in the 70's.
I also think everyone on the freighter EXCEPT Lapidis will die, and Desmond will take the survivors to safety finally and complete his 'RACE around the world' and finally stick to the man(Widmore).
Lastly what do you think about this?
Did Widmore buy the ship's log from the 'Black Rock' to help him find the island? OR Did he spend all that coin as a cover up as to why he is spending time and money on these random boats and militia if anyone asked?
ok I think I'm done, look forward to your thoughts.
Is it just me or was Ben's hair-do OUT OF CONTROL in this episode? He was rocking some sweet gelled-up stalagmites on top of his head. I know this is just as lame as analyzing Sawyer's perfectly coiffed lion's mane, but still.... Considering Ben's character,it's just too funny to imagine him waking up and scooping up a couple dollops of Dharma Hair Gel and crafting the perfect Raver 'do (minus the bleached tips of course).
I have a hard time believing the plane somehow split into two planes one landing on the island, and the other landing 5000 miles away in one of the deepest trenches on the planet. That makes ZERO sense.
Travis I agree with you that two planes don't seem to make sense, but neither does a smoke monster or a moving shack with ghost in it. I am not on-board with the whole two planes theory, but I have an open mind, because in the Lost universe it seems anything is possible.
You have a point, however story-telling-wise I don't think the theory holds water. Why wouldn't the plane end up in Tunisia or just continue on its flight? The fact that the plane is found in the one place on earth that makes it virtually impossible to recover, points to the idea it was deliberately placed there.
I think the Orchid video has more to do with the polar bear from "Confirmed Dead" than the fake wreckage.
Wouldn´t the trench right next to japan be much closer?
Just guessing about the distance, but it´s mor than 8000 meters deep.
(I think its called Andreasgraben - at leat in german)
Michael DEFINITELY heard the Mama Cass music when Libby showed up on the freighter... "you've got to make you own kind of music" - that was awesome
I love the Mousetrap mention...I always thought that was one of the most important lines and visuals in the show, glad someone else thinks so too
what if Locke is playing Ben - letting Ben think he is getting the better of him and enacting his own plan, only to trap him at the last minute? Locke's first move was to smash the plate into the wall within ear shot of Ben
Vozzek, I read all the reviews and yours is one of the best if not the best. I don't need to know what every name in Lost means in Greek mythology. Just get to the point, and you do.
Now, it makes sense the plane was neither faked by Widmore or Ben, they're both accusing each other so its probably someone else or probably the whole time/space thing which gives me a headache.
The thing that really gets me is the stuff like the picture frames changing. What could have happened in the span of a few seconds that would change THAT. I thought I saw a glimpse of the panda bear behind the counter the first time Jin was in there so maybe that's not one of those instances. Anyway, have the producers confirmed it wasn't set error? I agree, on this show theres no way that was meaningless, unless it was!! lol.
Since Vozzek, you're good at noticing things..not sure if you mentioned right before Ben called Alex over they had a shot of Karl with his arm on her ass and Ben looking at that. THAT was the foreshadowing moment. (Kind of like when you mentioned the Captain looking at Sayid and Michael..you knew that meant something.) We know Ben has never wanted Karl stooping her, and this was his way to get rid of him. I definitely think it was Ben who set that trap.
Thoughts? Vozzek?
I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but I have one major timeline issue with this episode (besides the fact that we have no idea how the heck Mike and Walt got from that dinky boat to NYC):
How long exactly was Mike on the mainland before he returned? It was obviously long enough to a) get an apt in Manhattan, b) safely place Walt with his mama without being recognized, c) eat a lot of Chinese take-out, d) get money and a haircut, e)continue to get that hair edged and trimmed up regularly, from the looks of it, f) purchase new clothes, including Hoodie of Death, g) buy Superfly's old car and a really fancy radio, h) crash it into a shipping crate, i) recover from his injuries, j) walk limp-free to his mama's house for a visit, k)continue on with life as seen in "Meet Kevin Johnson", and l) get another trim and edge-up before taking off for Fiji and the freighter.
WTF? I could personally only find time to do, like, half of that in two months, with a normal psyche. If my soul was tattered from a plane crash, craphole island, captivity, double-homicide, and floating at sea for who knows how long...well, I think I'd need more than December and November to get my stuff that together, know what I mean?