Just as our LOST season picks up even more momentum, we’re slapped in the face with the reality that it’s already more than half over. That totally sucks. What doesn’t suck though, is how much good information we’ve been given so far… or the fantastic reveals the writers have come through with week after week, more often than any other season. Things I Noticed:
The 815’ers have an ass-kicking breakfast bar
They may not be as comfy as Locke’s camp, but it looks like Jack’s side of the island got the bulk of the Dharma flakes. As each episode goes by, that little breakfast bar gets better and better. Looking closely, I think I even saw Charlotte working a blender.
It was nice to at least see one character from that camp willing to sidestep the usual bullshit and demand some direct answers. Last week I wanted to strangle Jack when he once AGAIN let Juliet dodge questions and lead him blindly across the island without pressing her for answers. But Sun’s attitude this week was refreshing. It took her all of 10 seconds to realize Daniel was clueless before making a beeline for the backpacks, maps, and prenatal vitamins. Sun acts, while everyone else reacts.
Maybe it was just me, but something seemed a little off about Jack this episode. Talking to Jin, he seemed strangely distracted. He bolted pretty quickly after Sun showed up, and gave off an overall vibe of nervousness. Just an observation.
Sun on the Run
Packing her toothbrush and other toiletries, Sun was definitely heading somewhere before labor pains (or Nikki’s acting skills) sent her to the hospital. And she wasn’t packing a let’s-give-birth suitcase either - it was more of a little weekend travel handbag. Either she was running to or from something when little Ji Yeon started kicking his way out. . . so where was she going? I’m not sure, but she was interrupted two times this episode while putting on lipstick: once to double over in pain, and once when Hurley knocked on the door. I think the ghost of Jin likes her au natural.
Ransom Notes and Lima Beans
Michael’s (presuming it’s his) block-style bank holdup note was pretty slick, but the cans of Lima beans were equally important. At first, I thought Lapidus was just trying to slip Desmond and Sayid a can-opener, prison-break style. But nah – they weren’t handcuffed and the room was chock full of other good weaponry and tools. Then I got to thinking that maybe Frank attributed the boat-wide sickness to the food everyone was eating. Sure, as viewers we know better, but think about it – people going crazy left and right… blowing their brains out below decks… if I were Frank I wouldn’t be touching anything that didn’t come straight from a can. More proof I think, that he’s totally in the dark – even on the mission they’re about to fly off on.
Crouching Dragon, Hidden Panda
Everybody Loves a panda!!! Especially when you really, really need one. Because that’s when a panda is most likely to be there for you, right? Right. Because as far as I’m concerned, the panda sure as shit wasn’t there the first time around.
What the hell am I talking about? I’m talking about the fact that Jin can walk straight up to a store clerk who happens to be standing in front of a giant panda and somehow NOT see it. He asks for a panda and the clerk whisks him off to an aisle of plush dolls to uncover the secret hidden ‘last’ panda. And after Jin loses it in a Mr. Bean-esque series of trips, drops, and fist-shaking mishaps… he returns to the store only to discover a second giant panda resting next to a dragon on the shelf behind the clerk –right where a dragon (and only a dragon) existed just a minute ago.
As so often happens on LOST, sought-after things are miraculously provided. From Sun’s pregnancy test to Charlie’s guitar, from Jack’s dynamite to Ben’s spinal surgeon… all things come to those who need them. The phenomenon goes by many names: suggestive manifestation, the magic box - this time I think it’s more along the lines of course correction. Jin was in desperate need of a damned panda and poof – there it was. Think I’m reading too much into this? Think I’m talking out of my ass? 9 out of 10 people do. But then again, those are the same people who still think the picture frame changes in Miles ghost-hunter flashback can be chalked up as ‘set error’.
So a doctor walks into a waiting room and says ‘Thank you for your patients’
Doc Ray is sent to retrieve Sayid and Desmond. For interrogation? For torture? No. He’s bringing them to the bridge so the captain can provide some answers. Ha! C’mon, we’re four seasons in now and a lot smarter than that.
Captain Gault’s mission becomes obvious this episode: to lay the groundwork for what will become Charles Widmore’s “story”. That’s the only reason he would voluntarily provide answers. He freely offers up the name of his benefactor, drags Sayid and Desmond into his quarters, and goes to very great lengths to ‘tell it like it is’. For some reason at this point it becomes important to impart upon Sayid/Desmond that the crash is staged, Widmore is good, Ben is bad, you guys should really want to kick his ass, etc…etc…etc… Even over-eager Doc Ray gets in on the act while leading them back to their new brain-stained quarters: “He’s pretty forthcoming, right? Right?” Yeah, right. Except that Sayid’s sarcastic retort tells us that he’s already caught on.
I don’t believe for one minute that Ben is behind the ‘staged’ jetliner at the bottom of the ocean, or the hundreds of rotting bodies, or the big elaborate cover-up (nor do I believe that Ben’s totally innocent either). It doesn’t take a “Don’t trust the captain” note for me either – I simply don’t believe Gault. Either he’s lying outright, or he’s been duped into believing and perpetuating that story by Widmore. And since so far we’ve seen nothing but a ship of fools – unknowing fools or crazy ones – I’d like to think someone on the freighter is in at least part of the loop.
The 2007 Bassmaster Island Invitational
Sometimes it takes a little scene to make a big impact. That happened this episode, as Bernard’s little fishing speech really struck a chord. “We’re the good guys, eh?” Wow. Deep, because all this season we’ve been pitting good vs. evil – the island vs. the freighter – Widmore vs. Ben. It got me thinking hell, maybe they’re all bad. Maybe the only good ones are the 815’ers, as Bernard points out. Maybe everyone else just plain sucks.
I knew High School English would be good for something
Before the start of this season, we all had sinister images of the evil freighter crew dancing through our heads. Yet when we finally got on board, they were nothing like we expected. Instead we found a ghost town of very strange characters. Those not dead were either crazy, going crazy, or just plain indifferent with the exception, so far, of the captain (and maybe Doc Ray).
As I watched trance-like Regina toss herself over the railing, the chains strapped to her body starkly reminded me of something – something to do with high school. Ten minutes later I had it: The Rime of the Ancient Mariner. The freighter was the ship from the story, stuck dead and motionless upon an endless ocean. The island was the albatross, chained around the crew’s necks – they’d spent too much time there and now they were doomed. They can’t move, they can’t flee, and they can only suffer for their folly.
The most chilling part of this episode was not seeing that future Jin was dead. It wasn’t when Kevin Johnson emerged from the shadows and Michael’s face came into view (although that was awesome). No, the most chilling part of the episode was when doc Ray was leading them to the ‘quiet part of the ship’. Desmond responded with ‘but this ship is not moving’, and with a shrug the doctor replied: “Well if you say so…”
Yikes. We’ve always assumed the freighter was moored out in the real world. We know that the ship’s proximity to the island is responsible for the cabin fever, the suicides, and the increasingly bizarre upside-down reading habits of those on board. But what if the freighter is close enough to the island that it’s becoming affected, both time-wise and space-wise, by the same phenomenon that sent Desmond back to 1996? What if it IS moving, if not literally but figuratively? As idle as a painted ship, upon a painted ocean.
Hurley Rocks a mean suit
As sad as the whole Sun/Jin story was this episode (and as much as I loved watching Juliet get the snot slapped out of her), the only real mystery there is what happens to Jin. I think our best guess at this point is that whatever happens to him happens to Claire, Sawyer, Rose, Bernard, and everyone else who didn’t either hitch a ride home on the wave of fame (the O6) or sneak back on their own accord (Ben). But a little side mystery popped up when Hurley asked Sun if ‘anyone else was coming’. When she replied no, he said ‘gooood’, as if relieved. Was he hoping not to see Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc? Or more likely, was he hoping not to see the ghost(s) of the other people left behind, the way he saw Charlie.
Course Correction, Jake Gyllenhaal, and my own Wild Conjecture
Okay, theory time. So I don’t believe Ben staged the plane crash, but then again, I don’t think Widmore did it either. And I’m pretty sure Oceanic Airlines can get no good press out of gruesome footage of a body-filled wreckage. So just who DID stage the crash of flight 815?
Answer: No one. The plane really did crash.
This is hard to grasp at first, but the more LOST plays out the more sense it seems to make. I think most of us agree the plane was brought to the island for its own purposes - whatever they might be. On the island virtually anything goes, which is why so many necessary people survived the crash. This is the magic of LOST.
But back in the real world, if we believe in the path of fate, the plane was supposed to crash. The people on board were supposed to die. That event played out, as a matter of the universe course-correcting itself, with the plane even sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the same three parts it broke into when it was torn apart in the air. In that one split second the plane existed in both universes: both the LOST universe, and the normal one.
On island, everyone is given a tabula rasa, or clean slate. See you in another life – and it truly is another life. The island and its inhabitants have their playlists and go through their motions, with the ‘surviving’ members of flight 815 looking on incredulously and playing their parts. Meanwhile, off-island, certain things that were supposed to happen cannot now happen… because the elements necessary to course correction are no longer in that universe. Let’s take Ms. Hawking’s man with the red shoe, for example. If you pushed him out of the way of his construction death, the universe would find a way to kill him tomorrow as a matter of course correction. But if he were suddenly gone from the universe tomorrow – the way flight 815 vanished – the universe would be screwed out of doing that.
I’m not going to beat the Donnie Darko horse again, but I will give it a quick kick. In that movie the universe got all messed up because a plane’s engine fell through a wormhole and existed in two different timelines simultaneously. I propose that flight 815 has done just that. The wreckage exists in the normal world, but it also exists scattered across the beach on LOST island. There’s no way I believe that anyone - Widmore, Ben, Bill Gates, The Wizard of Oz, or Bob the Builder with a giant Australia-sized crane actually went through the trouble of painstakingly recreating that crash site. That IS the crash site, because the plane actually crashed. And I’ll bet one day we’ll hear the black box recording to prove it.
On a final note, I’ll predict that when Frank Lapidus is looking at the decaying body of the ring-less pilot on the news, he’s really looking at a universally-course corrected version of himself in the cockpit of that plane. Because according to fate, he was supposed to be piloting flight 815. According to fate, he’s already dead. Ohhhh……
Sun on the Run
Packing her toothbrush and other toiletries, Sun was definitely heading somewhere before labor pains (or Nikki’s acting skills) sent her to the hospital. And she wasn’t packing a let’s-give-birth suitcase either - it was more of a little weekend travel handbag. Either she was running to or from something when little Ji Yeon started kicking his way out. . . so where was she going? I’m not sure, but she was interrupted two times this episode while putting on lipstick: once to double over in pain, and once when Hurley knocked on the door. I think the ghost of Jin likes her au natural.
Ransom Notes and Lima Beans
Michael’s (presuming it’s his) block-style bank holdup note was pretty slick, but the cans of Lima beans were equally important. At first, I thought Lapidus was just trying to slip Desmond and Sayid a can-opener, prison-break style. But nah – they weren’t handcuffed and the room was chock full of other good weaponry and tools. Then I got to thinking that maybe Frank attributed the boat-wide sickness to the food everyone was eating. Sure, as viewers we know better, but think about it – people going crazy left and right… blowing their brains out below decks… if I were Frank I wouldn’t be touching anything that didn’t come straight from a can. More proof I think, that he’s totally in the dark – even on the mission they’re about to fly off on.
Crouching Dragon, Hidden Panda
Everybody Loves a panda!!! Especially when you really, really need one. Because that’s when a panda is most likely to be there for you, right? Right. Because as far as I’m concerned, the panda sure as shit wasn’t there the first time around.
What the hell am I talking about? I’m talking about the fact that Jin can walk straight up to a store clerk who happens to be standing in front of a giant panda and somehow NOT see it. He asks for a panda and the clerk whisks him off to an aisle of plush dolls to uncover the secret hidden ‘last’ panda. And after Jin loses it in a Mr. Bean-esque series of trips, drops, and fist-shaking mishaps… he returns to the store only to discover a second giant panda resting next to a dragon on the shelf behind the clerk –right where a dragon (and only a dragon) existed just a minute ago.
As so often happens on LOST, sought-after things are miraculously provided. From Sun’s pregnancy test to Charlie’s guitar, from Jack’s dynamite to Ben’s spinal surgeon… all things come to those who need them. The phenomenon goes by many names: suggestive manifestation, the magic box - this time I think it’s more along the lines of course correction. Jin was in desperate need of a damned panda and poof – there it was. Think I’m reading too much into this? Think I’m talking out of my ass? 9 out of 10 people do. But then again, those are the same people who still think the picture frame changes in Miles ghost-hunter flashback can be chalked up as ‘set error’.
So a doctor walks into a waiting room and says ‘Thank you for your patients’
Doc Ray is sent to retrieve Sayid and Desmond. For interrogation? For torture? No. He’s bringing them to the bridge so the captain can provide some answers. Ha! C’mon, we’re four seasons in now and a lot smarter than that.
Captain Gault’s mission becomes obvious this episode: to lay the groundwork for what will become Charles Widmore’s “story”. That’s the only reason he would voluntarily provide answers. He freely offers up the name of his benefactor, drags Sayid and Desmond into his quarters, and goes to very great lengths to ‘tell it like it is’. For some reason at this point it becomes important to impart upon Sayid/Desmond that the crash is staged, Widmore is good, Ben is bad, you guys should really want to kick his ass, etc…etc…etc… Even over-eager Doc Ray gets in on the act while leading them back to their new brain-stained quarters: “He’s pretty forthcoming, right? Right?” Yeah, right. Except that Sayid’s sarcastic retort tells us that he’s already caught on.
I don’t believe for one minute that Ben is behind the ‘staged’ jetliner at the bottom of the ocean, or the hundreds of rotting bodies, or the big elaborate cover-up (nor do I believe that Ben’s totally innocent either). It doesn’t take a “Don’t trust the captain” note for me either – I simply don’t believe Gault. Either he’s lying outright, or he’s been duped into believing and perpetuating that story by Widmore. And since so far we’ve seen nothing but a ship of fools – unknowing fools or crazy ones – I’d like to think someone on the freighter is in at least part of the loop.
The 2007 Bassmaster Island Invitational
Sometimes it takes a little scene to make a big impact. That happened this episode, as Bernard’s little fishing speech really struck a chord. “We’re the good guys, eh?” Wow. Deep, because all this season we’ve been pitting good vs. evil – the island vs. the freighter – Widmore vs. Ben. It got me thinking hell, maybe they’re all bad. Maybe the only good ones are the 815’ers, as Bernard points out. Maybe everyone else just plain sucks.
I knew High School English would be good for something
Before the start of this season, we all had sinister images of the evil freighter crew dancing through our heads. Yet when we finally got on board, they were nothing like we expected. Instead we found a ghost town of very strange characters. Those not dead were either crazy, going crazy, or just plain indifferent with the exception, so far, of the captain (and maybe Doc Ray).
As I watched trance-like Regina toss herself over the railing, the chains strapped to her body starkly reminded me of something – something to do with high school. Ten minutes later I had it: The Rime of the Ancient Mariner. The freighter was the ship from the story, stuck dead and motionless upon an endless ocean. The island was the albatross, chained around the crew’s necks – they’d spent too much time there and now they were doomed. They can’t move, they can’t flee, and they can only suffer for their folly.
The most chilling part of this episode was not seeing that future Jin was dead. It wasn’t when Kevin Johnson emerged from the shadows and Michael’s face came into view (although that was awesome). No, the most chilling part of the episode was when doc Ray was leading them to the ‘quiet part of the ship’. Desmond responded with ‘but this ship is not moving’, and with a shrug the doctor replied: “Well if you say so…”
Yikes. We’ve always assumed the freighter was moored out in the real world. We know that the ship’s proximity to the island is responsible for the cabin fever, the suicides, and the increasingly bizarre upside-down reading habits of those on board. But what if the freighter is close enough to the island that it’s becoming affected, both time-wise and space-wise, by the same phenomenon that sent Desmond back to 1996? What if it IS moving, if not literally but figuratively? As idle as a painted ship, upon a painted ocean.
Hurley Rocks a mean suit
As sad as the whole Sun/Jin story was this episode (and as much as I loved watching Juliet get the snot slapped out of her), the only real mystery there is what happens to Jin. I think our best guess at this point is that whatever happens to him happens to Claire, Sawyer, Rose, Bernard, and everyone else who didn’t either hitch a ride home on the wave of fame (the O6) or sneak back on their own accord (Ben). But a little side mystery popped up when Hurley asked Sun if ‘anyone else was coming’. When she replied no, he said ‘gooood’, as if relieved. Was he hoping not to see Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc? Or more likely, was he hoping not to see the ghost(s) of the other people left behind, the way he saw Charlie.
Course Correction, Jake Gyllenhaal, and my own Wild Conjecture
Okay, theory time. So I don’t believe Ben staged the plane crash, but then again, I don’t think Widmore did it either. And I’m pretty sure Oceanic Airlines can get no good press out of gruesome footage of a body-filled wreckage. So just who DID stage the crash of flight 815?
Answer: No one. The plane really did crash.
This is hard to grasp at first, but the more LOST plays out the more sense it seems to make. I think most of us agree the plane was brought to the island for its own purposes - whatever they might be. On the island virtually anything goes, which is why so many necessary people survived the crash. This is the magic of LOST.
But back in the real world, if we believe in the path of fate, the plane was supposed to crash. The people on board were supposed to die. That event played out, as a matter of the universe course-correcting itself, with the plane even sinking to the bottom of the ocean in the same three parts it broke into when it was torn apart in the air. In that one split second the plane existed in both universes: both the LOST universe, and the normal one.
On island, everyone is given a tabula rasa, or clean slate. See you in another life – and it truly is another life. The island and its inhabitants have their playlists and go through their motions, with the ‘surviving’ members of flight 815 looking on incredulously and playing their parts. Meanwhile, off-island, certain things that were supposed to happen cannot now happen… because the elements necessary to course correction are no longer in that universe. Let’s take Ms. Hawking’s man with the red shoe, for example. If you pushed him out of the way of his construction death, the universe would find a way to kill him tomorrow as a matter of course correction. But if he were suddenly gone from the universe tomorrow – the way flight 815 vanished – the universe would be screwed out of doing that.
I’m not going to beat the Donnie Darko horse again, but I will give it a quick kick. In that movie the universe got all messed up because a plane’s engine fell through a wormhole and existed in two different timelines simultaneously. I propose that flight 815 has done just that. The wreckage exists in the normal world, but it also exists scattered across the beach on LOST island. There’s no way I believe that anyone - Widmore, Ben, Bill Gates, The Wizard of Oz, or Bob the Builder with a giant Australia-sized crane actually went through the trouble of painstakingly recreating that crash site. That IS the crash site, because the plane actually crashed. And I’ll bet one day we’ll hear the black box recording to prove it.
On a final note, I’ll predict that when Frank Lapidus is looking at the decaying body of the ring-less pilot on the news, he’s really looking at a universally-course corrected version of himself in the cockpit of that plane. Because according to fate, he was supposed to be piloting flight 815. According to fate, he’s already dead. Ohhhh……
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89 Comments:
Love the multiple time line idea. I think the main reason that Jack and Hurley realize they need to go back is because they do not exist in the world they now live in. Can Hurley see Charlie because he is closer to being dead than being alive?
I truly believe that all passengers of Flight 815 are dead and rotting at the bottom of a trench in the Pacific. On the island, they are between places, splitting themselves into two at that moment.
Jack starts to realize it when he tells Kate, "We were not supposed to leave."
DOC JENSEN: Another popular theory making the rounds is that we're dealing with alternate realities. For example, there are people who think the flash-forwards are merely possible future scenarios, not written in stone.
CARLTON CUSE: We want people to believe in the stakes of the show. The problem with alternative realities is that you never know when the rug is going to be pulled out from under you. We want the audience to believe that the jeopardy is real. Postulating alternative realities would be an escape valve that would be damaging that as a narrative value.
DAMON LINDELOF: You can get away with it in Heroes, where there is an apocalyptic future you want to avoid. But we're doing the opposite. We want to work toward a future where Jack is absolutely miserable and wants to go back to the Island. Everything we present to the audience has to be factual.
CUSE: We want the audience to believe that is THE future. We don't want people thinking, ''Well, since there are five iterations of this, I'm not going to invest in what's happening to the characters.''
LINDELOF: We're not going to tell you that we're against bending the time-space continuum. We are very for it. Carlton and I are PRO time-space continuum bending! But we're ANTI-paradox. Paradox creates issues. In Heroes, Masi Oka's character travels back from the future to say, ''You must prevent New York from being destroyed.'' But if they prevent New York from being destroyed, Masi Oka can never travel back from the future to warn you, because Future Hiro no longer exists. Right? So when we start having those conversations at Lost, we go, ''This show is already confusing enough as it is.'' To actually have characters traveling through time has to be handled very deftly.
source=http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20179125_3,00.html
Sorry but I disagree with your interpretation based on the above interview with the writers.
I agree with Sublime, I really really hate the idea of alternate realities, it just makes it all worthless. I hate it almost as much as I hate the idea of Adam and Eve being Kate and Jack.
I'm glad the first reviewer to come out is willing to say that they don't think that Jin is dead. I really don't want him to be dead, plus the date on his gravestone says he died on the day of the crash, not some time after. The real mystery is, why didn't he leave with Sun? I'm starting to think that the O6 had no choice about who got to leave. It probably happened very quickly.
Also: the breakfast bar. One thing that has always bothered me is that I really don't believe all the food in the dharma palate would have lasted this long with so many people eating it.
The most chilling part of this episode was DEFINITELY when the Doc showed D&S to their room. Do we already know who killed themselves? Is that still a mystery? Does it even matter? The blood stain definitely reminded me of the hatch. I really hope in somebody's flashback we get to meet radzinsky.
Just to be very clear: in my earlier comment everything in Italics is from an interview that I copied and pasted. Nothing in Italics is said by me. I posted a link to the full interview underneath my statement.
just so there isn't any idea that I'm going around trying to claim credit from something I didn't say.
WHIRLED PEAS peeps
note the panda:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x07/normal_JiYeon-052.jpg
not trying to pick on you dude, I like your recaps generally. I just noticed these things because I'm studying for exams so I'm up late needing distraction!
Hey, you do realise that Jin is NOT DEAD?
Did you look at his gravestone?
His death is stated as September the 22nd, 2004 - the day the plane crashed. Coincidence?
Remember, they said (in the story they made up) that only 8 survived the crash - they must have had to say that Jin did not survive the crash, and that he died on 22/9/04.
And even more so, she was calling for him and thought some random dude looked like him, which why would the door be opened when shes having a baby jeez! But I think this points toward jin still being alive on the island, they just have to go back!!
This was a great read! I love the way you write. On the other hand, I totally disagree with the dual time lines theory.
And I don't think Jin is dead - I think Sun really misses him. BUT wait - they all have their golden ticket and once ALL of them are on the same plane with their golden tickets, they will be back on the island. just wait...
lol @ orlost - the golden tickets.
It's like they're going the the chocolate factory to meet Willy Wonka!
Thank-you. I've been saying that it is the real 815 in the ocean there and it was Lapidus (a pilot sans wedding ring) in the cockpit ever since I saw that episode. That ship is broken up in the exact same three pieces the island 815 broke up into. And..as far as Ben goes....throughout the whole series, I think we have ben given glimps of Ben throughout all of his repeats. One scene could be Ben during his 4th time repeating on the island, and the next scene could be his second. I think Ben really is the Roland of Lost and Jacob may be the Crimson King.
Regarding who left the island, maybe Frank could only fit so many in the helicopter and said that he would be back for the rest; Jin told Sun to go and he would be on the next ride out; sort of like ferrying back and forth. Only he never made it back for the rest.
I missed what Desmond said about the boat not moving. I only caught the Doctor's reply. Thanks for that.
What about the clanging that Desmond alluded to at the beginning. Sayid mentions that it was not mechanical. Morse Code maybe?
The other thing that I noticed during Bernard's speech to Jin involved the view of Locke as a "murderer." In light of that being mentioned during the discussion of karma, etc., I have a feeling the writers are warning us that things don't bode well for the Bald One.
I was watching the last scenes again... with Sun getting ready and wanting to "look pretty" and the whole grave thing... and i was thinking.. there's a camera there... kind of like when Juliette saw her sister w/ her son... I'm sure Jin is watching it... (or eventually will).
LOVE the last bit. I never really believed the "the crash site was staged" thing. It's so...just...I don't know, but I always hoped it would turn out exactly as you said. I really hope you're right!
No, the most chilling part of the episode was when doc Ray was leading them to the ‘quiet part of the ship’. Desmond responded with ‘but this ship is not moving’, and with a shrug the doctor replied: “Well if you say so…”
and then he opens the door and we see the blood on the room wall.
i agree, it was a totally chilling scene with two completely different but equally intriguing WTF moments.
I think the appearance of the panda being the result of the universe course correcting is an interesting point. I thought it was strange how much time was given to the seemingly insignificant store clerk. Maybe it was just to confuse us as to whether it was a flash forward or back. If it was a critical point that needed to emphasized though, I didn't get the significance.
As someone already said above, I have a strange feeling that Jin is still alive and left behind on the island. First of all, on the graveyard, Sun said only that she missed him not "Why you had to go" or sth like that. Secondly, in the hospital she didn't want to have her wedding ring removed (a sign that she is still married). And there was something creepy about Hurley saying "good" to the fact that that nobody else was coming. Am I right ?
LOST PRODUCERS - SEASON ONE: “there are no space ships and no time travel.”
No time travel? Yah. That panned out now, didn't it?
"Oh but Vozzek, Desmond really didn't time travel... only his mind went!"
Hehe... oh STOP it. That's like getting a you-know-what and telling your girlfriend you 'really didn't cheat' on her.
Also, someone mentioned the eerie morse code-like noises. That part reminded me soooo much of that creepy WWII submarine ghost movie that came out in 2002, with the banging on the hull. I can't remember the name of it, can someone help a brother out?
-Vozz
Yo Vozz, how does Jin's gravestone marked 9/22/04 fit into your equation? Also, someone posted a screencap of the Panda behind the clerk the first time around.
What no one has mentioned yet is how neat it was to have both a flashback (Jin) AND a flashforward (Sun) in the same episode.
Vozz, are you thinking of Ghost Ship? It came out in '02, but didn't involve a sub. It was pretty creepy though.
I think the banging Sayid heard was morse code and it was Michael doing it, and that's how he's communicating with Ben. Somehow Ben is listening.
Also, I totally think Jin is alive. Whatever reason he's still on the island, it's the same reason Claire is still on the island and Aaron is not. When Hurley says "let's go see him (Jin)" -- he's smiling. Would you smile when you go see someone's grave? Also, Sun says "I miss you" -- not, something like "I can't believe you won't see your daughter grow up, blah blah blah" -- so I totally think Jin's alive.
Why are we assuming that Clair, Jin, etc. all die? The black guy that visited Hurley in the mental ward said 'they're still alive, aren't they?'. and Jack and Hurley have both been shown in flashbacks to say "we have to go back". Why would they have to go back if there were no survivors, just Ben and the freighter people fighting it out, or Widmore trying to take control of the island? I don't even believe Jin is dead yet, as his tombstone said 9/22/04 - an obvious memorial, NOT a true grave, so he's probably stuck on the island with the rest of the 815ers.
Long time reader, first time poster. Something's really bothering me about this episode. In the last official podcast, I remember that Darlton stated that there would never be both a flashback and a flashforward in the same episode. Does anyone else recall hearing that, and if it's true, is it possible that these were both flashforwards, and Jin is actually very much alive but working "undercover" for Sun's dad?
at first i wanted to dismiss vozz's theory about the plane crash - ending up truly crashed, the survivors in two different universes - but it could be the case. the only way we'll ever know is if they flat out tell us, but i'm wondering if any of the flash forwards of the Oceanic Six have actually MENTIONED the flight number? because it could be that if what vozz is saying is true, the Oceanic Six are told to say they were part of a different flight number. Interesting theories, I gotta say, even though I'm hesitant to latch onto the whole "they're really dead but are alive on the island" thing..
Yeah, that funny how Bernard called Locke a murderer but him, Jin, and Sayid blew up quite a few of the Others, and then killed the rest of them later with Sawyer and Hurley's help.
I liked the theory that the plane really did crash. I'm not convinced yet, but it sounds good so far. Something's not right about the whole Oceanic 815 thing. Most of the main characters were not supposed to be on that flight... maybe it is course correcting and they were not supposed to die?
My two cents:
Both Sun and Sayid mentioned that they were gone for 3 days.
Michael had no clue who Sayid and Desmond were... At least this is what I got from the scene...
An excellent recap.
My only question is if the universe corrected to put Lapidus's body in the Oceanic wreckage, wouldn't that mean that Seth Norris would be alive and walking around?
Vozz, Great review as usual, look forward to it every Friday morning.
I hope that Jin is NOT dead, don't think that he is...wishful thinking maybe? Anyway, 2 things, first, I thought the banging on the hull and the remark about the ship not moving were really creepy too, there is an old Twilight Zone about a downed sub and banging which always freaked me out. Also, maybe when Hurley said to Sun about anyone coming, he meant whoever has created the story they must adhere to, and not meaning Jack or Kate, etc. I think that gooood was not about his friends, but his watchdogs. Just my thoughts. Thanks for the good read and interesting theories.
Peace.
What no one has mentioned yet is how neat it was to have both a flashback (Jin) AND a flashforward (Sun) in the same episode.
What he said.
Vozz, are you thinking of Ghost Ship? It came out in '02, but didn't involve a sub. It was pretty creepy though.
No, not Ghost Ship. I looked it up and the movie I was thinking of is called BELOW. Great movie, very spooky.
Yo Vozz, how does Jin's gravestone marked 9/22/04 fit into your equation?
I think whatever happens to the rest of the cast when the O6 leave the island make most of the O6 believe they're dead. Sun wouldn't be trying to gain closure at Jin's memorial (since we know it's not a grave) unless she truly believed him to be gone. If she thought him alive, she'd probably be over at Jack's place plotting flight plans and tripping back and forth across the Pacific.
Hurley seeing Charlie has him suspecting something is up, but so far Sayid is the only person who knows his friends can somehow 'be helped'.
Also, someone posted a screencap of the Panda behind the clerk the first time around.
Crap, I missed that. And I looked twice, too. :) I don't have widescreen on the downstairs TV...
Also, did anyone notice that the wedding ring that Sun wears on the island is different than the off the island. The original ring was Silver/platnum with a diamond, but the set off the island was gold with antique entraving and looks like a threepart set. Now, what does THAT mean? Its similar to the picture frames changing, or the food in the fridge changing. Somehow the reality as we know is it not stable any more and different dimensions are starting to merge together. I also believe that the plane in the bottom of the ocean is not staged, but the actual flight, with the pilot being the one that should have been on it (our helicopter pilot).
A) Why is sun so afraid of Daniel? Daniel has been more than forthcoming, helped Desmond survive his bouncing-through-time and he probably couldn't hurt a fly.
Daniel is seriously a guy I'd run to and force us to become instant friends.
And yes, Vozz, Hurley does rock a suit. And by experience I know that any fat guy looks good in a suit. Skinny guys like me look terrible in suits.
Did anyone else notice that this episode was a FLASH FORWARD and a FLASH BACK?
1) Jin's cell phone was way old!
2) Jin still worked for Mr. Paik, Sun's father.
3) Jin was not recognized as part of the Oceanic 6.
Also, I think you're wrong about the plane really crashing.
The pilot not wearing his wedding ring, should be an indication of that.
Plus the multi universe thing would be too confusing of a story to hold together. It's always bad storytelling to do that- like having the last episode reveal it's all just a dream or some junk.
The only real problem with the fake plane crash would be the dna testing. Otherwise, it would make more sense (well, more than multiple universes anyway) to say it was faked.
I've asked this in another comment section, but is it possible Michael is one of the Oceanic Six?
I thought they conveeeeniently made it clear that recovery of the bodies was impossible, thus no fears about DNA testing. Or any other such form of identification by the relatives.
Thank you. I've been saying the trench plane is real since Find 815. If the writers expect us to believe someone planted it in the wrong ocean because the Pacific just isn't big enough for a hidden island AND a 777 wreck, that's insane. There are a dozen things wrong with it being a fake.
As for the pilot's ring, I chalk it up to whatever changed the picture frames and other things. He also had a moustache there.
If you did or watched Via Domus, you see a change of pre-crash events based on an on-island redemption of a character. (Not canon, I know, but it came from Lindelof's mind.)
As for TPTB saying no ff/fb sharing within one ep... Didn't they say that within a FF/FB, the scenes would be linear, not jumbled up? I thought it was a response to The Economist, where people thought the Italian guy Sayid killed at the beginning was the economist. I could be wrong.
Nice insights, vozzek. I think Jin is alive, though. Think of this- Sun was getting on that plane to leave him. Now, when her marriage is at its best, she's forced to. Claire was getting on the plane to give Aaron up. Now she's also forced to. For the irony to work, both Claire and Jin have to be alive on the island.
Jin was in a flashback - year of the Dragon was 2000 - 2001 and woul fit in with how long he said he was married (2 months) and the four years bewteen where he and Sun got on 815 in 2004.
The plane crash is a fraud. Where would you get 324 bodies? Um, how about dead Dharma folk? Pretty easy actually.
The boat not moving? It's not...literally, but yea, it's caught in the ether, that's for sure.
Jin is either on the island, and alive, or he died sacrificing himself for Sun and the baby. It was foreshadowed when they were in the tent. Jin said something like, "I will always protect you" or something like that (screen cap anyone?). I took that moment, coupled with the end moment as Jin sacrificed himeslef so Sun adn ji Yeon could get off the island, to protect her, to ensure she didn't die during child birth.
I think when the series if done and over, we'll be getting summer blockbuster LOST movies for a while. Just a thought... LOST:Back to the Beach.
i totally agree with "h"
you stole my thunder. the only way any theory that has been thrown out there can work is if this is a flash back of Jin, and a flash forward of Sun. neither of their characters would leave each other for any reason. even if sun had to leave the island before jin and jin got back some other way, the first thing he would do is find sun. especially knowing he going to be a father. furthermore, he would never get remarried. its very possible in the next episode Jin dies protecting Sun and the baby. he almost foreshadows it saying he would do anything for both her and the baby.
think about it, the grave of jin, would mean nothing to sun if jin was alive and still on the island. all having the baby would do is fortify her need to rescue him. this episode was a set up for jin's goodbye. the writers were just trying to throw us off by doing a flash back and a flash forward.
In Eggtown Sun says she wants to raise "her" baby at home and Jin corrects her and says "our baby"
I think that Sun has a "future memory" that she will be raising the baby alone and that Jin dies. I think the marker has to say the crash date to go along with the story they all make up.
If the marker was made before the Oceanic 6 get back, it would also have a death date for Sun.
"Where would you get 324 bodies? Um, how about dead Dharma folk? Pretty easy actually."
--------------------
Except they've been rotting for 15-20 years. Dressing them up and strapping them in seat belts should be pretty unlikely at this point.
i dont think jin is dead either usely lost make sus have tear jerkers when i charcter dies and so sad music i dint get this feel, and why wouldnt anyone be there even her family or friends or 815ers? and way to go sun for smacking the crap out of juliet mi wish it had been me lol i still feel the sting.talk about no doctor paseint secrecy.i dont care what her resons even thg i agree sun needed to stay if that had been me it been more than a smack i d have tackled her arse to the ground then beat the snot out of her.
@ lostforever
Good point. Maybe he is the sixth, which would also pave the way for him being the man in the casket. Perhaps 'John Lantham' was just an earlier version of 'Kevin Johnson' and this episode could just as well have been called 'Meet John Lantham'.
@ Vozzek
I'm thinking your theory is along the same lines as the infamous 'Schrödinger’s cat asleep'. Am I right? That particular quantum theory basically eludes to 'all possible combinations of being both dead and alive at the same time'. It's a mind-bender, and should be of interest to Lost fanatics. Look it up people :)
Actually, the panda was always there, just at one time the camera angle makes it looks otherwise !
Go look again, right when Jin enters the store, the panda is there, and it's always there, but when the guy asks Jin if he needs help or something, it's hidden behind other things and it looks like there's no panda, but it's there!
I've noticed that dead characters don't have flashbacks. (Of course, sometimes characters die at the END of an episode in which there are flashbacks about them - e.g., Mr. Eko.) But even Nikki and Paulo weren't dead when they were buried, so their flashbacks are also legit. Since there IS a Jin-flashback in this episode, and Jin did not explicitly die at the end of the episode, I take that to be evidence that he is still alive.
Mary said...
"Where would you get 324 bodies? Um, how about dead Dharma folk? Pretty easy actually."
--------------------
Except they've been rotting for 15-20 years. Dressing them up and strapping them in seat belts should be pretty unlikely at this point.
--------------------------------
Mary, there was something that went on during the past few off seasons called an alternate reality game, in which we saw videos of the modern day 2004 Dharma Initiative/Hanso Foundation in which they were conducting experiments on people in I think Sri Lanka, basically infecting them with Diseases and killing them to see the affects then do tests on them to see what happened. This was all created by the LOST crew.
Look up Sri Lanka video, and Rachel Blake videos on youtube, and get to know Dr. Mittlework the new guy running the Hanso foundation, and actually see Alvar Hanso who is in 2004-2006 a prisoner in his own home.
So my point is that the dead bodies could easily be conjured up by the Hanso Foundation, who want their island back, and it's "Special Properties" so they can exploit it, just as Widmore wants to do.
I came here figuring you, of all people, would postulate that Michael is the final member of the Oceanic Six. I can't find anyone suggesting it anywhere but it seems fairly apparent to me. I will still continue coming here friday mornings for your insight even so.
When Ben gave Michael the little boat and said "keep a heading of 325, there will be a boat to pick you up". I think Michael and Walt made it to that boat, and have been there ever since. Walt may, or may not be still there. (Ben may have got him off somehow, or maybe Walt was one of the ones that went nuts when they left the island?) Michael may also have memory loss when travelling through the rift, we do know he has a different identity, which may be by choice or given him because he had no memory of who he was when the freighter picked him up. Which also means the freighter has been out there a lot long than we think.
No, the most chilling part of the episode was when doc Ray was leading them to the ‘quiet part of the ship’. Desmond responded with ‘but this ship is not moving’, and with a shrug the doctor replied: “Well if you say so…”
I may be completed off on this, but I thought Doc Ray was simply referring to all the moving bugs in the room. I can see where you can infer more from this line, but maybe the writers put this in to trick us.
it's good to see Sun catching up on the season finale of Expose.
@ -h-
as to "1) Jin's cell phone was way old!"
Go here, http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/richg8/i615.jpg
Jin's phone is a currently for sale Motorola i615 used exclusively by Nextel. It IS a modern phone, which got me to thinking that Jin's flashback might actually be a flashforward, because they used a modern cell phone, but if it weren't for the fact that Nextel does NOT, nor ever has offered service in Korea, where Jin was supposed to be in that scene, I choose to chalk it up to another continuity error.
To PTD - I did say earlier in the comments that I think Michael is one of the Oceanic Six. I'm very suprised no one has examined this possibility. We don't know what has happened to Walt and Michael since they left the Island. Maybe when Walt visited Locke his subconscious was moving him? Maybe something happened to Michael and Walt in the Ocean and it was enough to persuade Michael that Walt would be better off on the Island and give him a reason to play spy for Ben on the boat. Something happened to make Sayid work for Ben, so it wouldn't be unreasonable to think Ben could align Michael with him too.
I find it amusing that people accept as possible this massively expensive, incredibly complicated series of Dharma stations built on a remote island, but won't believe someone could stage a single plane crash. Sorry, Vozz, but this theory is simply not going to pan out.
Jin is not dead. We were told the cover story used by the O6 - anyone not part of the O6 has to be "officially dead."
Love the Rime of the Ancient Mariner analogy - greatest poem ever written; only problem is that the Mariner was the only one alive on the boat and all his shipmates were killed by Life-in-Death: ("Four times fifty living men, and I heard nor sigh nor groan. A heavy thump, a lifeless lump, they dropped down one by one.")
I hope Bernard is wrong about them being the good guys and Locke et. al. being the bad guys. I really like Bernard and Rose and the fact that they are so against Locke makes me sad. I hope he will be vindicated.
Also, your idea about the plane crashing and the people being alive - both things happening - makes me think about Jake in The Wastelands (Book 3 of the Dark Tower Series). He's conflicted because he knows he is dead and he knows he is alive and he is going to go crazy if he doesn't repair the rift in his mind - kinda like what Jack was going through in TTLG. Interesting stuff
I agree with others that Jin is alive, but I disagree with griff that his flashback proves it. Naomi had a flashback after she died, it was short, but very important.
I think Sun goes along with the charade of pretending Jin is dead for the same reason everyone else lies - we don't know what that reason is yet, but it must be really compelling. Sun has to pretend he is dead, even at his gravesite, because you never know who is watching. But when she says "I miss you" it is not the same as saying "I miss you because you are dead." However, I do feel that she doesn't think there is a way to go back and rescue him at this point. Remember, she gave birth no more than six months after they got rescued - seems that everyone is still pretty willing to go along with what has happened - Charlie hasn't visited Hurley, Jack hasn't started to lose it.
"I may be completed off on this, but I thought Doc Ray was simply referring to all the moving bugs in the room. I can see where you can infer more from this line, but maybe the writers put this in to trick us."
I can't imagine where you'd get that from at all.
@Sharon ben never says a boat will pick you up he says "stay on that corse and you will find rescue" he never said a boat. @vozz yea BELOW is a great flick I thought the same thing on that part with the thumping.
No way is Michael one of the O6. Too many things they'd have to explain to make him one of the O6. Why'd he change his name, why isn't Walt one too, etc...
I agree Michael is not one of the 6. Sun was the reveal as the 6 in this ep. For the blood splater i think it was the guy who went with the comunication guy to see the island when he got back that was his bunk and he went nuts and boom. I like the idea of Sun baby (ji yeaon) and clairs baby (aaron) are adam and eve in the cave. Its really far fetched but so is everything else on lost
I like your theory that the plane really crashed and that course correction is a big matter.
That might explain why a guy like miles is brought to the island and also the appearences of ghosts (all the whispers, Jacob, Christian Sheppard, tall Walt...)
If Desmonds mind can travel in time, why shouldn´t that have happend to the entire group of flight 815? Dan said the effects vary/differ, so the question is, do they vary from person to person or due to outer circumstances? At first I thought thats not possible because Frank and Sayid didn´t experienced any timetransfer after the heli-ride. But Sayid is one of the 815ers and Frank should have been one of them. So they went through amuch bigger mind/timetravel but are just not aware of it. Though I get the impression that Frank is somehow aware of it. I hope it´s not completely confuse...
njroen- I didn't do The Lost Experience and I can't really see them looping that info back into the show at this point, but maybe.
Are you saying Hanso/Dharma were killing hundreds of *DHARMA* people in Sri Lanka? Or did you mean to originally type that the plane could be full of Dharma victims, not Dharmites themselves?
Well, I consider anything Lost related, to be Lost related.
I was referencing the fact that Dharma have no probelm offing people for the sake of their research and the island. By "Dharma folk", I meant anyone involved with Dharma. It was shorter than elaborating on the whole. Someone else mentioned the fact that they have an elaborate complex on an "invisible" island (and we also now know they have chemical weapons) but they couldn't stage a plane crash with random bodies?
(Dharma has also been pretty quiet no? Ben/Widmore/Others/815... yet Dharma has been out of the picture for sometime. They wouldn't want the island back?)
Jin is in a flashback.
The store clerk references that it is the year of the dragon, which was from 2000 - 2001 and would fit into Jin and Sun only being married 2 months.
I also think that Jin was in a flashback. However, the year of the dragon was in 2000 and also will be in 2012. It IS feasible that it's in the future. At least if you are going to use the Year of the Dragon as a premise for your argument.
Mary,
I am suggesting that I wouldn't put it past DHARMA to put test victim bodies on the plane. Here is the link to the video, very important stuff when it comes to the story of LOST. It is where I learned over a year ago that Mr. Widmore's construction company built all the stations on the island back in the day(1973 to be exact).
http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-eHEYswgK8
If you look up the Rachel Blake videos on YOUTUBE you will learn alot else as well.
Here is the one of Alvar Hanso being found and interviewed in his home in modern day....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qSZmQqyX49o
That was great. Awesome theory. I loved Donnie darko too.
I agree with Vozzek on the idea that the 815ers are the only good guys. First, maybe Captain Hanso or Rouseau were brought to the Island because the Island wanted them there. However, over time Hanso's people and Dharma either became corrupted or decadent or lost sight of the Island's goals ... The Others have at times followed The Island's directives, but Ben seeks his own ends first as well. Ben was chastised by Locke for living at the Dharma compound.
Locke was chosen by Jacob, but Ben is working hard to turn Locke to seeing things from his point of view. That means neither of the groups fighting over the Island are really the Island's chosen group. Rouseau may be part of the good guys. Desmond is an odd one because he may have been sent to the Island by Charles Windmore, but is not part of Charles' team either. So he is likely a good guy or someone with whom the Island can work.
Finally, the back gammon theme and Adam and Eve being found with black and white stones leads me to recall Plato's Republic. Early in the dialogue two choices are presented to Socrates and he retorts that a 3rd option always exists. This ties into the deepest roots of philosophy - something the writers have mined. So maybe the 815ers are the synthesis in the dialectic of lost and the back gammon black vs. white game must change to a game with 3 options for the Island and Jacob to achieve their ends.
@ TheLoneAssassin and @vozzek69
I totally agree - The plane crash was real. The people on that island are dead and alive at the same time.
Schrödinger’s cat and the magic box are all good! I think it's becoming obvious that we are playing with quantum mechanics here. Honestly, it isn't even science fiction.
I don't think the concept is too difficult to grasp within the overall series. Look how fast we've adapted to all the other oddities. There's plenty of time left in the series to explain it.
I don't see how there could be two plane crashes. I watched Darko and I didn't even realize there were two engines. I just thought the one engine went back in time and that's what messed everything up. I don't know. I don't like it. It may be true. But if that's how LOST ends up, that'll suck.
Long time reader, first time poster. Has anyone made note of the seams down the center of the back of Jack and Jin's shirts? I just noticed them this episode, not sure if they were there before. I noticed it first on Jack in the Breakfast Bar scene when he seemed to be acting terribly fishy, then I noticed Jin's during the pack-up-and-go-fishing scene. Could be nothing, but they were just so conspicuous...
Wow, I really love reading your recaps, they are very fun to read. I love the Ransom Notes and Lima Beans part and "So a doctor walks into a waiting room and says ‘Thank you for your patients." Those were really good and it they also made me laugh. :)
I'm wondering if they were only able to make one trip back to the island, picked up six people (according to weight distribution)with the intention of going back and getting more, and so on. Something happens and they can't get back to the island to get the rest and then have to lie about it (for some reason). Lots of holes, I know, but I'm still holding out hope for Sawyer and Jin!
can't agree more ! ...was thinking the same thing that the survivors are both dead and alive. The show will startle a few watchers but not many. They, as I, are beginning to EXPECT certain things now. Like Michael being on board the ship, like Sayid beginning his relationship with Ben through his "boat" experience... etc and etc. I've proposed the theory and will state again, LOST will end with the plane arriving in LA as if nothing ever had happened. And, conversely, to give the show its symmetry, a price will be extracted from the world to balance this event off ! Thanks for the conjectures; always enjoy reading your thoughts. - BENS
Speaking of symmetry - ever notice how Jin and Desmond's lives parallel one another?
...and so, this explains Jin’s regret he expresses to Sun to the fact that he was a poor husband and in his mind why she slept with another man. He forgives her, but more importantly, asks her to forgive him for his mis-directed affections for work (aka her father’s work) and not towards her (sic, his employer’s daughter). In many way, Jin parallels Desmond in this regard – both work for their lover’s fathers who have little affection or regard for them, if at all. It is both a paradox and an ever-present storyline to explore and discover. - BENS
Maybe there have been discussion about this already, but I can't figure it out what does the date1980 3 20 on the left part of the thumbstone represent if it is supposed that 1974 11 27 is the date when Jin was born, and he died on the day of the planecrash.
Well, it is apparent that many of ya'll did not pay attention to Jin's tombstone. Jin's stone says he died the day of the plane crash. Does anyone wonder if he may be trapped on the island? I mean we did not actually see him die and future synopsis points to several of the "Oceanic Six" wanting to return to the island.
Just food for thought.
Found the answer: 1980 3 20 is Sun's birthday.
Yea, year of the Dragon is also 2012, BUT, it must have been the 2000 - 2001 year. Jin was only married for two months, and he is working as an errand boy for Mr. Paik, which fits into his timeline even before he becomes a Mr. Paik henchman. I also think they attemped to make him look younger by making his hair shorter. Also, the phone was pretty dated, yea I know they still make it now, but would they in 2012? The taxi and the cars were also not very 2012.
I personally think lots of losties are left on the island. This creation of the Oceanic 6 lends itself to going back to the island as we saw with bearded Jacks future. I think Jin puts Sun first so that she will live with the baby, but I think Jin is alive.
Always a great time to read Vozzek's theories!!!
The twist of Jin's death at the end saved the episode for me (plus Micheal, but we knew he would come back).
The stage crash and the 06 are the most intriguing things to me, i want answers,lol.
Thx again Vozzek ;)
Vozzek, I always come every saturday to read your Things I noticed, and I love it.
But this week I just need to tell that I disagree with your theory. People on the plane are not the same than the people on the island : Remember why Lapidus called Oceanic Airline? It was because the pilot we saw on the news was NOT the real pilot...
Except that, Vozzek, I love reading you.
Did anybody notice the book Regina was reading? It was by Jules Verne, but I can't find the title anywhere...I thought it was "The Survivor Chancellor" or something like that; I don't have HD, so it was hard to tell.
I love how "well read" the show is, the writers are always using book references, it's brilliant.
The whole thing with Regina was creepy though, when she jumped off the side in chains.
As for the staged crash, it was implied by the captain (who isn't supposed to be trusted) that Ben staged the crash. I wouldn't put it past him...but I wouldn't doubt Widmore's involvement either.
Yes it's Jules Verne's
THE SURVIVORS OF THE CHANCELLOR
Here is a description of the theme of the book,very interesting NO!
"It was issued in 1875. Shipwrecks occur in other of Verne's tales; but this is his only story devoted wholly to such a disaster. In it the author has gathered all the tragedy, the mystery, and the suffering possible to the sea. All the vari- ous forms of disaster, all the possibilities of horror, the depths of shame and agony, are heaped upon these unhappy voyagers. The accumulation is mathematically complete and emotionally unforgettable. The tale has well been called the "imperishable epic of shipwreck."
http://www.jules-verne.co.uk/the-survivors-of-the-chancellor/
madcap1 said: @vozz yea BELOW is a great flick I thought the same thing on that part with the thumping.
This movie was on BBC1 last night, but I was too scared to watch. I did catch the last 15 mins though and noticed that the girl on the sub was called Claire and one of the other guys was called Walt!
Thanks for the write-up Vozzek, enjoyed it as ever.
ionem: "Found the answer: 1980 3 20 is Sun's birthday."
I never really thought about how old Sun was when the plane crashed, but I don't buy her being 24 (I know that's how old she is supposed to be, I just don't buy it). Yunjin Kim was born in 73, we're supposed to believe her character is 7 years younger?
mdpeterson42: The meaning of the third date on the tombstone comes from an article that I found on this site. If the translator figured it out correctly the meaning of those signs, than it is highly possible that Sun was born in 1980. You're right the age difference is greater than we would have expected initially, but not impossible;)
Here you can find the article:
http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/
2008/03/jins-tombstone-and-
date-of-death-9-22.html
p.s. Sorry I couldn't post the entire link in a single line, but I hope you'll figure it out. If not, you can easily find it at the Screencaps section on this site.
Just a note, maybe not relavent but the colours black and white are strong in lost in that recently they have been putting it in alot laterly, the panda in this episode and juliet wearing a black and white bikini any thoughts?is it a good vs bad thing?
also the black white issue appears in a flash back?
I'm not sure if someone has posted this already but I though that i'ld drop it in, cool theory too.
"Where would they get 324 bodies?"
Well, now we know where they got the 324 bodies! FTW!