Update: 6th June Just noticed that EW.COM gave a shoutout to Vozzek here about his article.
Did The Writers/Producers of LOST Watch Land of The Lost When They Were Kids?
You bet your sweet ass they did.
Back in the heady days of Saturday Morning Cartoons, I was a young little punk fighting with my sister for the television. The original Land of The Lost TV series blew me away by combining dinosaurs, sci-fi, and a special effects budget that included more Styrofoam and clay than it really should've. Somehow though, that show managed to rock. The writers were some of the best Sci-Fi authors of their time (Larry Niven included) who went on to do some very cool projects. Some episodes were fun, some were creepy as hell. All of them taught lessons. Most included messages of morality, sacrifice, and humility... at least until Uncle Jack showed up, moved in next to the Sleestak, and started stomping all over their eggs.
Anyway, for a long time now I've been mentioning Land of the Lost in my recaps. I drew parallels to both shows containing a closed universe in S3 Every Man For Himself, and I talked about the mirrored universe references at the end of S4 after watching There's No Place Like Home. I mentioned what could be construed as LOTL's final episode "Circle", and how it corresponded to the circular patterns we've seen throughout LOST. At times, the similarities between the two shows are almost uncanny.
As everyone knows by now, The Land of The Lost movie is coming out with Will Ferrell. It's not going to be anything like the original series, but that's okay. Will Ferrell rocks, and he can do what he wants with it. I've always got my LOTL set of DVD's, and can watch them whenever I want... no fighting with my sister this time around.
Long story short, the Sci-Fi channel had an original LOTL marathon the other day. Maybe some of you saw it. I watched a few episodes with commercials, then broke out my DVD's again. Hadn't seen them in a few years, and I thought it would be cool to see what other similarities I could find. Even better, other people are starting to notice. Some other bloggers have begun pointing out the similarities between these two shows. So I thought it would be fun to list them here, and let everyone who's seen them add their own. Here goes:
* The Land of the Lost is a closed universe filled with temporal distortions, time travel, and weird magnetic properties - just like the island.
* Like LOST island, The Land of the Lost is full of people and objects who have arrived there accidentally. Some even describe passing through a storm "full of lightning".
* One of the three main characters who took over for 'Dad' in season 3, was named Uncle Jack.
* The leader of the Sleestak was played by a really tall actor. His name? Jon Locke.
* People in LOTL see characters who aren't there. In Album Holly and Will see their dead mother. Turns out they're seeing only what they want to see... once they deny it (Hurley counting to 5?) these things disappear.
* In Elsewhen Holly runs into an older version of herself, from the future. She gives her past self a locket (just like Richard's compass). She also gets a cut, that turns into a scar on her older version's hand.
* In Hurricane someone parachutes into the Land of the Lost.
* In Hot-Air Artist a hot air balloon lands in the Land of the Lost.
* In The Flying Dutchman an 18th century schooner is landlocked in the middle of the LOTL, looking uncannily like the Black Rock.
* Dialogue from The Flying Dutchman is interesting too. They mention Narcissus blossoms in the valley that have a dream-like effect on everyone. While talking about this, Will says "That's strange... we all seem to have had the same dream..." Later on, the captain uses these blossoms to put Holly to sleep. Before he does he says "Want to sail around the world? See faraway ports? Visit strange islands?"
* In Downstream the Marshalls build a raft to try and escape the LOTL. They travel downstream for a while, only to end up back at their starting point. Much like Sawyer and Michael (and Desmond, who also tried to sail away) they realize that they're stuck in a closed universe that won't allow them leave.
* Beneath the LOTL are a series of underground tunnels called "The Lost City". In Circle, the Marshalls find these tunnels by diving into a small lake and swimming to them through an underwater tunnel, exactly like Jack and Sayid in this year's LOST S5 finale.
* In Possession, Holly gets possessed by an evil being who is currently trapped (Jacob's cabin?) in a special pylon. After Dad destroys the pylon's matrix table, Holly (Claire?) is restored.
* In Split Personality, the Marshalls see trapped versions of themselves from an alternate universe. They're wearing different clothes, but from the same backpacks they had when the first went over the waterfall. Turns out the two universes are "grinding against each other", and they need to free their duplicates by taking a crystal from one of their hands. As Will attempts this, Dad says "Don't touch his hand!" and then goes on to explain about matter touching antimatter (Chang and the rabbits in the Orchid station video?) and the cataclysmic results that might follow.
* In Time Stop, Uncle Jack builds a compass from a tripod and a piece of iron. It doesn't do anything. "Shouldn't it point north?" Will asks him. "Yes it should", Jack says, "but it's not doing anything. There's something weird about the magnetic properties of this place..."
* In Ancient Guardian, the Marshalls find an ancient statue created by the Altrusian ancestors of the LOTL. But it's nowhere near as big (or as cool) as the statue on LOST. ;)
* The original name for LOST was going to be "Circle". The episode where the Marshalls finally make it home... while making it back into the LOTL at the same time??? Circle.
There are other parallels between the two shows, but these are the major ones. Unfortunately, Land of the Lost never had a resolution. Season 3 turned really bad, and it ended abruptly. Uncle Jack was reckless, their Altrusian friend Enik went buck wild against them (after having helped the Marshalls for a whole two seasons), and there were a host of bad 'guest stars' including a Medusa with rubber snakes on her head that came from a Dollar Store. They closed the final few episodes with Will singing and playing guitar, as Wesley Eure tried to promote a music career. Trust me, it was bad. I don't think it was coincidence that the Sci-Fi marathon ended with the last 5 episodes never being shown.
I'd like to talk about Circle for a minute. It was the last episode of Season 1. They were probably worried the show wouldn't be picked up again, so they pulled a neat little trick: they let the Marshalls go home (through a time doorway) but also made them to fall back into the Land of the Lost again. The last scene shown was the very opening scene of the show... which is how many of us have theorized LOST will end.
In Circle, Enik explained a paradox: when the Marshalls fell into the Land of the Lost, they actually split into two separate realities. In one, the people on the waterfall were stuck in a loop. Enik showed them the loop, and in it you could see the time doorway opening beneath the Marshalls as they fell down the waterfall. But right before they hit it, they looped back to the top of the falls. The people in the loop were stuck there, falling over and over, not being able to enter the Land of the Lost because the Marshalls already existed there. "You're not supposed to be here", were Enik's exact words.
Enik then opened a time doorway that led them to home, and the Marshalls stepped through it. When they did, it "resolved the paradox" and allowed the people trapped on the falls to finally fall through the time doorway and into the Land of the Lost. They woke up in their raft, with Grumpy the T-Rex roaring over them... just like in the opening sequence. They also had no memories of anything they did in Season 1.
Now I'm not saying this is how LOST will end, and I'm definitely not saying Enik's logic is sound. The whole "paradox" thing had a lot of holes in it. But it was a great plot device for both ending the show, and also leaving it open-ended in case Season 2 got picked up (which it did). I often wonder how much the writers and producers of LOST were influenced by "Circle". Because it seems that no matter what happens at the end of LOST, I get the feeling we're going to see that plane crash again.
Alright, time for you guys to pony up. Anyone else watch the LOTL marathon?
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Land of the Lost by Vozzek69
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6/05/2009 07:51:00 AM
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54 Comments:
Everything's already been done, so it makes sense any writer gets ideas from past works. A lot of similarities here, for sure.
nice post mate!!
never saw this show, but yeah.. makes lots of sense.
Vozzek69, as usual you are right on the money! I did recently watch the marathon and have also watched the DVD's over the years. I have always said there were similarities and everyone thought I was crazy. I am really glad that you were able to provide examples that really proved this theory. Love your writeups!!
hahah me and my sisters saw LOTL too for the first time on SiFi. It really seemed like a primative LOST!! We were making associations between the two as we were watching it. Both have pylons, a strange group of indigenous people who are somewhat hostile to the main characters, and a mysterious being who performs elaborate experiments on the characters.
(The creature/being who looked like stars creeped me out bigtime.)
The reason Lost is a post-modern show; nostalgia and pastiche is all in this show. :)
The creature/being who looked like stars creeped me out bigtime.
That's the Zarn. And oh yeah, that whole sunken dry-ice swamp he lived in had me creeped out as a kid. :)
i really don't think LOST is going to end with the plane crash. Darlton have already said there will be a clear-cut resolution, so i think this whole "time loop" theory is a no-go.
also, they already gave a nod to this fan-speculated "ending" for the series, in the episode 316, which starts exactly how LOST began - closeup on Jack's eye, as Jack wakes in the jungle.
i really doubt they would do this for a third time.
LOVED LOTL as a kid. My kids just watched several of the episodes with me on SciFi. I loved it, my kids had trouble keeping up due to hysterical fits of laughter at the special effects. But during Elsewhen, my daughter admitted, "This is confusing, just like LOST."
Are you a salesman Voz? ;-)
Now, I have to netflix LOTL.
Awesome!
that was one of my favorites as a kid ! I saw the marathon and started to watch it but CSI won out. It was so hokey I was shocked how bad it looked when I tried to watch the marathon. It's amazing what we watched as kids. My son is now watching Banana splits on TV. amazing !!
Vozz, great writeup, good to hear from you again.
I watched SciFi ALL DAY for that LOTL marathon. At least I can say that with pride here...everywhere else, I just get blank stares.
While I spent most of the day noting bad acting and cheesy futuristic set designs, the one thing that irked me the most was Will and Holly constantly screaming, "Daddy!" So irritating!!
When I saw the Circle episode I did think about Lost, but not on the level you did. Thanks for this article!
A very interesting read.
I've been saying for a long time now though that if the end of Lost was Flight 815 crashing again (like Via Domus and this show you mention) it would be the worst ending ever.
Mainly because its so predictable.
Land of the Lost is available on for free viewing on Hulu.
http://www.hulu.com/land-of-the-lost
The show has some pretty cheesy special effects and bad acting. I guess if you can get past that then it might be enjoyable. :)
USA Today ran a comparison of "Lost" and "Land of the Lost" today as well. I think they might be ripping you off.
I watched one episode where Holly was climbing down an open hole, and she reached a dark crystal Marshall described as the "Heart of the Land of the Lost" (a heartbeat was heard each time the scene cut to Holly). The hole would open and close at times. Holly eventually got out, and Marshall closed the hole but left the rope in it as a mark. The whole scene was almost dead on Locke climbing down to TFDW.
Hey there!! Love your site. Big fan of LOST!!!
Jeffry: Unfortunately only available in the US :(
I suppose you can draw similarities between these two shows, as well with Wizard of Oz and Lord of the Flies.
As someone else mentioned here, it is very difficult for an author not being influenced or even heavily limited by other works. We live in a world where almost everybody writes something: songs, poetry, blogs...
As an example, everything that has been writen can be related to the classical Greek authors.
You forgot the parallel between the T-Rex and the Monster!!!
So you're comparing Crazy Eights to Bridge. Gonna be a reeeeeeeeeal long hiatus for you, eh?
Vozz -
Love your write ups. One thing though, "The Circle", was going to be a totally different project for ABC/Touchstone. I know they showed a quick shot of the script in one of the season 1 special features, but I found the following information:
"The Circle" was an ABC/Touchstone pilot that never made it on air. It was going to be a one hour drama about law enforcement in Alaska. One of the orginal writers of "The Circle" has a blog you can visit to view this information. Link is below.
http://johnaugust.com/archives/2004/two-scripts-for-the-circle-now-up
I think it is pretty likely that when Touchstone was putting together the special features on Season 1 they just used that script's picture as an example when discussing the concept of creating a show. ("The Genesis of Lost")
Maybe I am totally wrong, but I haven't seen any good sources stating the show was going to be called "The Circle".
It just seems to be the biggest LOST urban legened I have ever read. I have looked everywhere for confirmation, but I have not found it.
Like I said, maybe I'm wrong, but I have never seen an actual official source stating "The Circle" was LOST's original name.
And no, I dont count Lostpedia's synopsis of the Season 1 DVD special features.
I do know it was originally titled "Nowhere" when Jeffrey Lieber put the concept together and wrote the original pilot. There is an interesting article at
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2007/Cast-Away/
If anyone has an offical source stating LOST was going to be called "The Circle" I'd love to see it so I can stop thinking about this.
I'm not trying to start a flame war. I was really happy to see a Vozzek post during the Hiatus.
Totally going to put Land of the Lost on my netflix queue now...
"Like I said, maybe I'm wrong, but I have never seen an actual official source stating "The Circle" was LOST's original name. "
I think that's a typo. I think he means LOTL was supposed to be called "circle", not LOST
In the Flying Dutchman they made reference to a maelstrom (Miles Straumme)
Also in the Hot Air Artist. Notice what is on the Hot Air Ballon, a smiling face. Just like Henry Gale's.
aw vozzek i wish you had been my brother when LOTL was on, i was the sister always wanting to watch it, while my brother always won out and watched something dumb that I can't even remember now : )
One of the episodes, the Sleestacks made the sun very bright or something like that. A mysterious repairman just appeared and was able to fix everything, and make things appear. Holly thought about a chocolate shake, and he made it appear. When asked why he was in the Land of the Lost he said "we all answer to somebody" which sounds a lot like what Ben would say about Jacob.
This guy had a Jacob-like feel to him as he was able to predict things and make things appear in the Land of the Lost. He was also able to walk into the tunnels without getting hurt (however this was because he had a shield like device).
Also, in one of the episodes they were talking about how the Land of the Lost wouldn't let the Zarn guy leave.
If you're interested in Land of the Lost, you might want to visit my fan site with coverage of both versions of the TV series and the latest news on the upcoming movie.
http://personal.linkline.com/enik1138/
Flipping through the channels today, I saw LOTL on and it was the episode where they find the ship.
"Hmmm...that's kinda like the Black Rock," I thought to myself.
Lost.
Land Of The Lost.
Hmmmm.....
NAHHHHHH!
and I went on with my day.
Great piece here, haven't thought about LOTL for years, thanks for the comparisons.
Yeah I watched it. It was like eating bowl after bowl of 35 year old Lucky Charms. Definitely made me think of Lost - you did not mention the Temples built by ancients (on both shows)
I TOTALLY watched that marathon, jokinly at first because I thought it was cheesy and silly. But then all this cool time warp stuff started happening and I said to my girlfriend "this is kind of like Lost". The similarities just kept coming and I couldn't stop watching. The should have remade the show into an actual serious movie without Will Ferrell, it could have made some serious buck.
I think that's a typo. I think he means LOTL was supposed to be called "circle", not LOST
Yes, that's what I meant. Didn't know about "The Circle" script that Chicago mentions. Interesting stuff. All I remember was back in the old imdb message board days, multiple people kept saying that LOST was originally supposed to be called "Circle". I could be wrong.
aw vozzek i wish you had been my brother when LOTL was on, i was the sister always wanting to watch it, while my brother always won out and watched something dumb that I can't even remember now : )
Me too, Claire. I think she made me watch the Monchichi's!
One of the episodes, the Sleestacks made the sun very bright or something like that. A mysterious repairman just appeared and was able to fix everything, and make things appear. Holly thought about a chocolate shake, and he made it appear. When asked why he was in the Land of the Lost he said "we all answer to somebody" which sounds a lot like what Ben would say about Jacob.
Totally forgot about this episode! One thing I found really interesting: Holly and Will wished for milkshakes, and this guy suddenly made them appear (magic box?). When they said "I don't believe it!" the milkshakes immediately disappeared. Then they said "I believe it, I believe it!" and the milkshakes came back.
This is why I say Jack's little note that reads "I wish" may become very important.
Also in the same episode, the force-field thing he used on the Sleestak was said to have "highly unusual magnetic properties".
I was very, very young when LOTL was on TV and my details are fuzzy, but I can remember watching it intently every Saturday(?). I loved Holly and for some reason the Sleestak Cave(?)reminded me of the entrance to Ruby Falls Cavers (which we had just visited). My bf and I are waiting intently for the movie.
Well, I normally love your 'Things I've noticed' and all the great theories, but this time I really got pissed.
Why the hell must you spoil the end of LOST?!?!?!?!? At least there should be a warning.
This theory makes perfectly sense and it would be the greatest ending of the show, but holy cow, why the hell must I know it now!?
Fuck you, I'm angry.
Calm down Franz. It's only vozzek's thoughts and interpretations on similarities of the 2 shows. He doesnt know how it's gonna end anymore than you or i do. It's not a spoiler so just chill. :)
Great article vozzek, enjoyed it much. Havent seen that show in years. might have to watch a few episodes now tho.
No matter how bad Land of the Lost was I really enjoyed the SciFi marathon. I brought me back to my childhood. I haven't seen the movie yet, but I can't wait.
Both shows feature a brother with brown hair and a sister with blond (okay, technically Boone and Shannon were stepsiblings/lovers, but who knows how Will and Holly's relationship would have progressed as they reached adulthood?); two leaders, one an outdoorsman (Marshall/Locke), the other, a strategist named Jack who tried to stay rational but ended up going a little crazy at times; hostile characters (Sleestacks/Others) with a creepy, bug-eyed leader who were on the island before the castaways and had territorial conflicts with them; a nice, young fellow who needs a haircut (Chaka/Hurley); time travel; strange, old structures...
Excellent article Vozzek in the episode "AfterShock", once they discover Uncle Jack's raft Will is explaining to Holly that "Maybe time here isn't like time in the real world. A few hours here may be years back home" This article makes a lot of sense. Many parallels to LOTL!!
My favorite episode of "Land of the Lost" was when Enik found out that the Sleestacks weren't the ancestors of his species, but their future. Gave me the chills.
Wow, I remember seeing reruns of LOTL a long time ago, but I never got anything out of it except peaceniks getting stuck somewhere violent and being chased by lizards. I didn't even know the lizards or the chimp had names.
I'll have to rewatch some, but my first instinct is that Jacob would have LOVED the Marshalls because they struggled with the morality of merely tossing pebbles at the killer lizards/sleestacks. The Losties are quite violent (and gladly so) by comparison.
Questions for those-in-the-know:
-- was there ever any hint in LOTL that the Marshalls were "brought" there? (That's huge, since Jacob seeks out pawns and "brings" them to the island.)
-- and just out of curiosity, how did LOTL end? Are the Marshalls still in the LOTL? When puberty hit (if ever) did Will and Holly ever take a dip in the sleestack waters? Did any of the Marshalls die? What was the really bad (poor) ending?
Awesome, awesome, awesome post.
I tried to watch with my 8 year old son. Excited at the memory of how much I loved LOTL as a child. hahah I couldn't bare it. It was so horribly cheesy from a visual stand point. It's theoretical base is sound and it was indeed more complex than my mind understood at that time, but it is still fondly remembered. I never considered the parallels between LOST and LOTL, but it's not surprising as it seems there is an endless supply of themes, concepts and ideas drawn from the most obscure of sources.
Good Read.. Thanks!
In the episode "Aftershock" Will did indeed suggest that time may be different in the LOTL. A couple of scenes later Holly says, "So you've been looking for us for 6 months."
This is the beginning of the 3rd season which suggests at least 2 years have gone by......BUT..it is hard to verify that because everyone is wearing the same clothes every day and Holly has grown a full foot but her pants still fit. Maybe 2 years maybe not.
Also,
-Pylons and Dharma stations all have different purposes in controlling the environment.
-Invisible Zarn, Invisible Jacob
-The circumstances of the paradox in "Circle" where 3 must leave in order for three to enter are somewhat similar to "316" where the circumstances of the original crash must be recreated as closely as possible. (maybe a stretch)
vozzek69, great post.
Hmmmmm.....this may be a very, very esoteric parallel, but when you referred to the time looping waterfall, Vozz, it reminded me of Austrian Paper Clip scientist and naturalist Viktor Schauberger's theory, expanded upon from his discovery of an antigravity vortex in that type of water movement (related to the difference in density of colder and warmer water) that it also might alter the passage of time.....on a lighter note, Pink Panther Flakes, anyone????
OMG! I had never seen Land of the Lost before and my stepson was watching the marathon, so I watched some of it with him. I automatically made a connection with the whole time travel theme, and the title itself, but then noticed the credits and saw Jon Locke, and thought...hmmmm-I'm sure this show had influenced the writers somehow! The special effects on this show were quite funny though!
I read this, then went out and bought LOTL looking for similarities I could find.
-I also noticed in LOTL Marshall falls into a pit with a sleestak, who he befriends. Sawyer/Jin/Michael & AnaLucia?
-Marshall, Will and Holly use the mirrors with morse code much like Ben and the Others.
Vozz- I'm telling you - you ROCK!! I saw that shout out from Doc to you. I also try to get the posters on Unified to read you. Thanks for your work.
Does any body see any connection with Lost an The movie "Frequency"?? The movie is from 2000 and is pretty much about time travel and how changing the past affects the future. Not sure if coincidence but it stars Elizabeth Mitchell as "Julia", and the main bad guy character in the movie is named "Jack Shepard". just found it interesting with names and time travel and all, or maybe I'm just going through severe withdrawal!!
Camp. you're not the first, but always good to remind others who aren't aware of the parallels - a very underrated movie that, blasphemy I know it will be for me to say, rivals "Somewhere In Time".....EM is fantastic in it, doubtless to the great surprise of no one - also, you may not be aware of this, but the actor who played Jack Shepard in Frequency also was Kate's lawyer in Season 4's "Eggtown" (Darlton paying further homage, perhaps?)
Im watching the movie Frequency right now and the writers of Lost were definatly inspired by this movie. Not only is one of the characters named Jack Shepard but the same actress who plays Juliet on Lost, Elizabeth Mitchell is in it and her name is Julia(kind of close don't you think) also it has to do with contacting with people from the past.
The Marshalls also moved to a temple for the final season!