Things I Noticed - 316
Alright, I'm going to say it. Many of you aren't going to like it, but some of you might be thinking it too. I want you all to know that it hurts me to say it, but I'm going to do it anyway. And here it is: This season, so far, is shaping up to be even better than S1. Blasphemy? Could be. But this episode was so different, so fast-flowing and cool that it knocked me on my ass. It felt like it flew by in half the time. It wasn't the best episode in the world, but it was so wildly different in tone and taste that it didn't seem to belong in the S5 lineup. And yet when it ended, it still managed to snap into the season like an irregularly-shaped puzzle piece. Things I Noticed:
Vozzek's Top Three After-Episode Chat Comments
I spent 10 minutes checking out the chat room after the episode ended. Very cool! Instantly I saw these gems, and knew that they had to be shared with everyone:
* did hurley eat all 78 meals on the plane?
* I think ben went to kill penny but before he got there his car hit a deer and he got bloody by cleaning it off in time to catch ajira flight 316
* the guitar case has 2 years of twinkies in it
Hahahahaha!!!
Yes! The Island!
Wasn't it corny when Hawking said that? After so many seasons of build-up toward this mystical moment, Hawking spent three minutes jamming fistfuls of answers down our throats. The way she did it, I felt like we were being force-fed. Funnily enough, the looks on the main character's faces reflected tired disinterest - I'm not sure much would shock or surprise them anymore. Desmond however, was the very animated exception (ironically enough) to the rule. He hasn't received enough off-island torture yet, and isn't ready to go back. His life is relatively peachy, and he's gonna need some spectral visitors, alcoholism, and/or fugitive drama to convince him.
Sci-fi is a cool genre, but I hate when it leans toward being overly technical. I have to say Hawking's lecture was a little too high in the midichlorian count for me. LOST has always been sci-fi peppered with the supernatural - and lots and lots (and lots) of unknowns. To talk about giant underground magnets, to lay the island's impending locations out in such a bare bones, matter-of-fact way like that... I'm not sure I liked it. But in the end the island turns out to be the tower from Krull, and Dharma gathered their best math-nerds, plus Alvar Hanso(?) to figure out where and when it would pop up next. We gotcha.
The Case of the Missing Giant-Headed Baby
Kate shows up babyless at Jack's place, and once again we play the all-too familiar game of "Where's Aaron?". I think the answer here is simple, with complex roots. Most likely, Kate's given the baby to Claire's mother, Carole. Aaron's grandmother sure would seem the most logical choice to raise him at this point. Then again, Kate's never been all that logical. So this also leaves the possibility that she sought out and hooked up with Cassidy, as Sawyer requested. She could've passed Aaron off to either of them for safekeeping before deciding to go back to the island. Whichever way it happened, giving up the baby is catastrophic for her - Kate loves Aaron and has fully been a mother to him.
Not so surprisingly, the reason behind the hand-off is once again Benjamin Linus. After pointedly telling Kate "You're not his mother" last week, those seeds must really have grown fast. Those words seem pretty hypocritical of Ben, considering the whole Alex debacle. Ben was never really Alex's father, and the whole situation ended badly because of his selfishness in wanting to raise her. I think in his own tactless and pretty harsh way, Ben was imparting this lesson upon Kate last episode. He was not-so-subtly letting her know that she shouldn't make the same mistake he did. No matter how much she loved him, no matter what she did, the island wasn't going to let her be his mother. A quick drive and some heavy thinking later, Kate resignedly admitted to herself that the island would never let go of her. Placing Aaron out of harm's way was the type of sacrifice only a true mother could make. And now without him, there's nothing to keep her from going back to the island. She's not even doing it for the island, she's doing to keep Aaron safe... Kate knows she couldn't exist in the real world without wanting Aaron back.
Jack Gets Help After Class... Or Detention, Depending Upon How You Look at it
As Ms. Hawking's new preferred student, Jack gets expert tutoring in the one subject he's always failed at: Faith. No better place for this than in a church, too. Five seasons and a ton of weird crazy shit later, Hawking knows Jack will still have problems with something as simple as swapping out a pair of shoes. With Locke gone, and Ben mistrusted by everyone, her purpose here is to make Jack believe. Jack's always been a tough nut to crack in that regard, but after everything that's happened to him, both on and off the island, I think we're starting to see the chinks in his armor.
It's not enough to just want to go back to the island - I think the island has to want you back as well. Jack's trans-Pacific flights always failed because he never had faith that they'd work in the first place. Hawking asks him to take this leap of faith, and for Jack that leap is to put his father's shoes on Locke's feet. For Hurley it was listening to those inner voices/visions, realizing that he's NOT crazy, and denying the big lie. For Sun it was believing that Jin is alive. For Kate it was giving up Aaron. And maybe for Ben, it's *not* knowing everything and letting someone else take the reins for once. He all but asks Jack what Eloise said to him in the church, but later on he leaves Jack in peace to read Locke's suicide note. Ben's always been omniscient, manipulative, controlling... but now he must let go and let things play out the way they're supposed to. That's his penance for returning to the island.
Hawking tells Jack they must recreate as many 'circumstances' as possible in parallel with the original flight. But in essence, it's not so much a physical scavenger hunt to scare up random objects that the island needs to get them back. Bringing these items is no more than a demonstration of faith; much the same way Locke had to show the island that he believed way, way back in S1. Remember when he didn't believe? The island took his legs. Yet every time he restored that faith Locke came back stronger and better than ever. Belief is everything in LOST. And belief seems to manifest itself into reality, time and time again, all throughout the show.
And speaking of Locke, his own act of faith was dying so that he could return to the island. Back in S2, Locke explains to Eko that Boone was "the sacrifice that the island demanded". Now he himself is this very sacrifice, acting as "proxy" (Hawking's word) in parallel to Christian Shephard's corpse from flight 815. What happens when Locke returns to the island is going to be very big and probably just as weird.
You Wanna Know How Kate Likes Her Coffee? With Sawyer.
Ahhh, poor Jack. We say that a lot, but he does set himself up for some really big falls. When Kate shows up in his bed, Jack's willing to forgo any questions about Aaron - or anything else - for the chance at rekindling her love (and loving). Jack and Kate are emotionally connected, and have a history of leaning on each other to get through many situations. This includes their relationship. But as I said before, Jack and Kate's off-island romance was never really meant to be. It was more of a crutch they both leaned on to get through hard times, each taking away something that they needed.
Jack remembering how Kate liked her coffee was a stark reminder to her of a life that she can never have again. Remembering her brief happiness with Jack and Aaron is something Kate doesn't want to do anymore. Ever. She's devastated by the loss of Aaron, and watching Jack inadvertently reflect happier times only serves to piss her off - not so much at Jack, but at circumstances in general. Kate storms off again, wearing out yet another pair of walking shoes. She won't even drive to the airport with Jack. It's a good bet last night was Jack's last time on Kate's playground, and once they return to the island she's going to realize that her true happy ending most likely involves Sawyer.
Tying up Loose Ends. Literally.
At long last, the white tennis shoes are explained. The fact they were planted there all the way back in the series pilot episode is some really great storytelling. As each little piece of the puzzle falls into place, Jack's faith is ever so slightly more solidified. His conversation with Locke as he tied those shoes on his feet was hilarious, but it was also necessary for him to hear his own words. For five seasons, everyone from Locke to Ben to Rose has been trying to convert Jack over to a man of faith. Now, it appears that Jack is even working on himself.
He's Got Lifeless Eyes. Black Eyes. Like a Doll's Eyes...
Well the rabbit really did. Like the black stone Jack found on the Adam and Eve skeletons in White Rabbit. Like the black eye of Locke, as shown in Claire's dream during Raised by Another. Funny how both those episode names pertain to plot points here in 316.
Mirror Mirror
Another very cool aspect of the O6 return involves the role reversals of all the main characters. Some were overly obvious and some were open to interpretation, but the writers drew excellent parallels between the occupants of Oceanic Flight 815 and Ajira Airways flight 316.
Sayid is now Kate - Shackled, sullen, and accompanied by some type of law enforcement official. The male/female roles are reversed here, with Sayid's captor even looking somewhat like Ana Lucia. We don't know who has Sayid or why, if he's truly captured or just acting that way. But why the hell would anyone be shipping him to Guam, and with only a single woman to guard someone as dangerous as Sayid is? It's a straight-up recipe for a classic headbutt/escape.
Hurley is now Charlie - Based upon the real-life holes in our existing judicial system, it's (sadly) not too far of a stretch to say that Hurley got out with Ben's kickass lawyer and some sick bail money. I'm just glad we didn't have to watch a Hurley prison-break episode. As he shows up with the guitar case, it seems pretty obvious that Hugo probably had another sit-down with ghost Charlie. I'd even bet that the guitar actually belonged at one point to his late friend. Maybe Hurley met up with Liam, or maybe he bought it on Ebay. Either way, the guitar got beamed down to the river along with him... the island seems to be trying to put a band together.
Ben is now Hurley - Or at least he arrives that way. Ben is last to board the plane at the very last second, having just made the flight. It had me bemusedly wondering if Ben experienced the same S1 antics that Hurley ran into in his journey from the ticket counter to the gate. Remember that Hurley "wasn't supposed to" make the original flight. A few seasons later there was even more evidence of this, as Hurley stands on the beach, looks to the ocean and claims "I'm not supposed to be here". The actual context of that scene has Hurley 'secretly' talking to Sawyer, but I always suspected it had double meaning. Perhaps Ben is now the person who's not supposed to make the flight - after all, he's not one of the O6. Hurley even uses the words "He's not supposed to be here!" Ben's words to Hurley are interesting also: "Who told you to be here Hugo?" A knowing nod toward his probable brush with Charlie's ghost, but also something more.
Kate is now Claire - Broken, confused, and torn over a decision she just made regarding her child. It's not too far of a stretch here to assume Kate might even be pregnant, too. The plane needs a pregnant chick, and I'm pretty sure Sun hasn't had any hookups. Dunno about coach.
Jack is now Locke (or maybe Ben?) - Suddenly Jack is somewhat of a believer. When Hurley's outburst threatens to derail his position on the flight, Jack reins him in and keeps him calm. Jack's taken some measure of authority here. Okay, maybe I'm stretching it.
Sun is now Vincent - Hehehe... alright, I totally couldn't think of a parallel for Sun. Maybe she's Rose, who after the crash somehow 'knew' her husband to be alive. You guys come up with something. And hey, where the hell is Vincent anyway?
Vozzek, Why are you Saying O6? Only 5 of Them are Returning!
True, but are you gonna be the one to just blow off 2 whole years' worth of Ben = Aaron theories?!?!? Especially when Aaron's the only one of the Oceanic 6 *missing* from the plane, and Ben's the only ex-islander on the plane who's *not* one of the O6? With all the time-traveling crazyness, and with the branches of the LOST family tree twisting incestuously into every corner of the plotline... isn't it at least possible that Ben's backstory was intentionally and falsely fed to us? And if Ben is indeed Aaron, did Kate teach him how to read!?!? Hahahaha!!!
And While We're Out on a Twisted Limb...
Chew on this one: Flight 316 was the plane that crashed in the Indian Ocean... Lapidus was looking at a himself! Spooky? Crazy? An excerpt from 'Things I Noticed - Ji Yeon', last March:
There’s no way I believe that anyone - Widmore, Ben, Bill Gates, The Wizard of Oz, or Bob the Builder with a giant Australia-sized crane actually went through the trouble of painstakingly recreating that crash site. That IS the crash site, because the plane actually crashed.
On a final note, I’ll predict that when Frank Lapidus is looking at the decaying body of the ring-less pilot on the news, he’s really looking at a universally-course corrected version of himself in the cockpit of that plane.
Okay, so I was wrong about the plane being flight 815. But maybe I was right about everything else. How'd the plane get from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean? I'll bet it's lying smack dab on one of Hawking's pendulum points. Does this mean Flight 316 crashes? Looks that way. Does this mean Frank dies in the crash? Damn I hope not. I love his character, and I think we all want to see more of him on the island. My initial thoughts when watching last night were that the O6 (plus Frank) got individually time-flashed back to the island, and Ajira air never crashed at all. So maybe I'm wrong about everything in this whole section! But I had to mention it anyway, because the thought of Lapidus looking at a dead version of himself is so straight up punch-in-the-face Twilight-Zone spooky that I'm really in love with it.
In any case, Hawking mentioned there were several flights crossing the island's hotspot during that time period, but when she pointed out Ajira 316 she said "It must be this flight". I'm betting she knew Lapidus would be the pilot. Just as Widmore used him to find the island two seasons ago, Hawking knows he'll find it again. The good news pointing toward his survival is that Frank was definitely "supposed" to be on flight 815 the first time. The island wants him, and welcomes him. Lapidus also had the best line of the episode: "We're not going to Guam, are we?" Hehehe, gotta love Frank.
Ben's Secret Trip to the UFC Tryouts
Alright. After all the nice-guy things I've been saying about Ben, even I have to admit it looks 99% as if he went on a mission to hunt down and kill Penny. While most people are picking out a book for the flight, Ben's trying to squeeze in a quick assassination attempt. With Desmond back from nautical obscurity, it's best for Ben to strike now - he might not get another chance. His revenge will come with the killing of Widmore's daughter, and he heads to the dock with murder on his mind. Right?
Admittedly, it sure looks that way. But before we lynch him, I'll offer my obligatory 1% alternative explanation as to what happened. And then when I'm done, you guys can decide whether or not to put your torches down.
I think Ben went back to the dock for an entirely different reason: to convince Desmond that he needed to go back to the island. I'm pretty sure Ben knows at this point that Desmond is the game-changer; in the grand scheme of things, getting him back to the island would be like having his own secret weapon. So either Ben tried talking Desmond into returning, or Ben showed Desmond what would happen to him or his family if he didn't go back. And then Desmond proceeded to beat the living piss out of him.
Before you wonder why Ben and Hawking didn't chase Desmond out of the church and try to convince him to stay, keep this in mind: Desmond never arrived on the island by plane crash. Desmond came by boat. And handily enough, Desmond has a boat. And Ben just came out of a whole basement chock full of longitudes and latitudes and projected plot-points as to where they island will be in the future. If Desmond is to return to the island, his own leap of faith will be leaving his family behind. Ben went to sow more seeds, and to leave Desmond with the means to return to the island himself... the way he did the first time.
So the blood on Ben's hands (and face) was his own. And I could totally see Desmond beating the crap out of him for showing up there, too. He'd just stomped all over Hawking's cool floor map and given Jack a severe case of the spook-eye (go back and watch!). Desmond is not currently in the mood for this shit. But whatever Ben may have said to him, I'm sure those words will eventually come to fruition. This will lead Desmond to return much the same way Kate did, if only to protect his family. As Ben told Michael, and as Hawking tells Desmond this episode, the island is not finished with him yet.
You've Got to Lift it Up
One final bit of conjecture about Desmond: I'm starting to think his trip to the stadium where he met jack for the first time (Man of Science, Man of Faith) wasn't accidental or coincidental. I'm even thinking this is a future Desmond traveling back to the past where he knew Jack would be. After a bunch of small talk, out of nowhere Desmond suddenly tells Jack "You've got to lift it up". I've thought since the very beginning that this would pertain to something important much later on. Then someone last week, somewhere, posted a translation of one of the hieroglyphics to be "lift up". Not really sure I read it right, but if someone could find it I'd appreciate looking at it again.
I Wish You had Believed in Me
Locke's one-line suicide note was awesome. It served as a fantastic beyond-the-grave jab to Jack's now already shaken ideology. He doesn't even need to see the note, he's going back already. He pointedly tries to avoid it, but reading it alone like he did might've been the final push Jack needed. "We're all convinced sooner or later, Jack"... and Jack certainly wasn't convinced until later.
Jack's eye-opening jungle wake-up scene was a jarring clone of the opening of the series, yet I don't think any of us were shocked to see it at this point. We've been expecting it for a while now, and many people, including me, have even theorized that this could be how the series might end. Now that we've gotten it out of the way I feel almost a little bit relieved. It was still a very cool scene, and they did a great job of putting Jack back in a suit and tie for it and everything.
The most interesting part of Jack waking up with Locke's suicide note in his hand was the part of the torn note that he happened to have: I WISH. These two words are hauntingly reminiscent of Ben's "whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be" speech to Locke back in S3. Once again this all goes back to faith and belief: only through truly believing in something does the island seem to grant it. Disbelief, denial, defiance... these seem to be things the island really can't stand. Just ask Eko.
Locke's note serves to remind Jack that he himself must believe in (or wish) things in a manner consistent with total faith. Only by doing this can he become attuned to the island, and only then can they accomplish whatever goal or destiny they were all brought back there to fulfill.
Jin's Smirk Is Worth a Thousand Words
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING could've been a better ending to that episode than Jin in a Dharma jumpsuit, smirking knowingly at his friends' return to the island. We're going to see a Jin/Sun reunion... Dharma in its prime... maybe we're even going to see the underwater hatch get programmed by a musician. I think I had the same smirk Jin did.
Wasn't it corny when Hawking said that? After so many seasons of build-up toward this mystical moment, Hawking spent three minutes jamming fistfuls of answers down our throats. The way she did it, I felt like we were being force-fed. Funnily enough, the looks on the main character's faces reflected tired disinterest - I'm not sure much would shock or surprise them anymore. Desmond however, was the very animated exception (ironically enough) to the rule. He hasn't received enough off-island torture yet, and isn't ready to go back. His life is relatively peachy, and he's gonna need some spectral visitors, alcoholism, and/or fugitive drama to convince him.
Sci-fi is a cool genre, but I hate when it leans toward being overly technical. I have to say Hawking's lecture was a little too high in the midichlorian count for me. LOST has always been sci-fi peppered with the supernatural - and lots and lots (and lots) of unknowns. To talk about giant underground magnets, to lay the island's impending locations out in such a bare bones, matter-of-fact way like that... I'm not sure I liked it. But in the end the island turns out to be the tower from Krull, and Dharma gathered their best math-nerds, plus Alvar Hanso(?) to figure out where and when it would pop up next. We gotcha.
The Case of the Missing Giant-Headed Baby
Kate shows up babyless at Jack's place, and once again we play the all-too familiar game of "Where's Aaron?". I think the answer here is simple, with complex roots. Most likely, Kate's given the baby to Claire's mother, Carole. Aaron's grandmother sure would seem the most logical choice to raise him at this point. Then again, Kate's never been all that logical. So this also leaves the possibility that she sought out and hooked up with Cassidy, as Sawyer requested. She could've passed Aaron off to either of them for safekeeping before deciding to go back to the island. Whichever way it happened, giving up the baby is catastrophic for her - Kate loves Aaron and has fully been a mother to him.
Not so surprisingly, the reason behind the hand-off is once again Benjamin Linus. After pointedly telling Kate "You're not his mother" last week, those seeds must really have grown fast. Those words seem pretty hypocritical of Ben, considering the whole Alex debacle. Ben was never really Alex's father, and the whole situation ended badly because of his selfishness in wanting to raise her. I think in his own tactless and pretty harsh way, Ben was imparting this lesson upon Kate last episode. He was not-so-subtly letting her know that she shouldn't make the same mistake he did. No matter how much she loved him, no matter what she did, the island wasn't going to let her be his mother. A quick drive and some heavy thinking later, Kate resignedly admitted to herself that the island would never let go of her. Placing Aaron out of harm's way was the type of sacrifice only a true mother could make. And now without him, there's nothing to keep her from going back to the island. She's not even doing it for the island, she's doing to keep Aaron safe... Kate knows she couldn't exist in the real world without wanting Aaron back.
Jack Gets Help After Class... Or Detention, Depending Upon How You Look at it
As Ms. Hawking's new preferred student, Jack gets expert tutoring in the one subject he's always failed at: Faith. No better place for this than in a church, too. Five seasons and a ton of weird crazy shit later, Hawking knows Jack will still have problems with something as simple as swapping out a pair of shoes. With Locke gone, and Ben mistrusted by everyone, her purpose here is to make Jack believe. Jack's always been a tough nut to crack in that regard, but after everything that's happened to him, both on and off the island, I think we're starting to see the chinks in his armor.
It's not enough to just want to go back to the island - I think the island has to want you back as well. Jack's trans-Pacific flights always failed because he never had faith that they'd work in the first place. Hawking asks him to take this leap of faith, and for Jack that leap is to put his father's shoes on Locke's feet. For Hurley it was listening to those inner voices/visions, realizing that he's NOT crazy, and denying the big lie. For Sun it was believing that Jin is alive. For Kate it was giving up Aaron. And maybe for Ben, it's *not* knowing everything and letting someone else take the reins for once. He all but asks Jack what Eloise said to him in the church, but later on he leaves Jack in peace to read Locke's suicide note. Ben's always been omniscient, manipulative, controlling... but now he must let go and let things play out the way they're supposed to. That's his penance for returning to the island.
Hawking tells Jack they must recreate as many 'circumstances' as possible in parallel with the original flight. But in essence, it's not so much a physical scavenger hunt to scare up random objects that the island needs to get them back. Bringing these items is no more than a demonstration of faith; much the same way Locke had to show the island that he believed way, way back in S1. Remember when he didn't believe? The island took his legs. Yet every time he restored that faith Locke came back stronger and better than ever. Belief is everything in LOST. And belief seems to manifest itself into reality, time and time again, all throughout the show.
And speaking of Locke, his own act of faith was dying so that he could return to the island. Back in S2, Locke explains to Eko that Boone was "the sacrifice that the island demanded". Now he himself is this very sacrifice, acting as "proxy" (Hawking's word) in parallel to Christian Shephard's corpse from flight 815. What happens when Locke returns to the island is going to be very big and probably just as weird.
You Wanna Know How Kate Likes Her Coffee? With Sawyer.
Ahhh, poor Jack. We say that a lot, but he does set himself up for some really big falls. When Kate shows up in his bed, Jack's willing to forgo any questions about Aaron - or anything else - for the chance at rekindling her love (and loving). Jack and Kate are emotionally connected, and have a history of leaning on each other to get through many situations. This includes their relationship. But as I said before, Jack and Kate's off-island romance was never really meant to be. It was more of a crutch they both leaned on to get through hard times, each taking away something that they needed.
Jack remembering how Kate liked her coffee was a stark reminder to her of a life that she can never have again. Remembering her brief happiness with Jack and Aaron is something Kate doesn't want to do anymore. Ever. She's devastated by the loss of Aaron, and watching Jack inadvertently reflect happier times only serves to piss her off - not so much at Jack, but at circumstances in general. Kate storms off again, wearing out yet another pair of walking shoes. She won't even drive to the airport with Jack. It's a good bet last night was Jack's last time on Kate's playground, and once they return to the island she's going to realize that her true happy ending most likely involves Sawyer.
Tying up Loose Ends. Literally.
At long last, the white tennis shoes are explained. The fact they were planted there all the way back in the series pilot episode is some really great storytelling. As each little piece of the puzzle falls into place, Jack's faith is ever so slightly more solidified. His conversation with Locke as he tied those shoes on his feet was hilarious, but it was also necessary for him to hear his own words. For five seasons, everyone from Locke to Ben to Rose has been trying to convert Jack over to a man of faith. Now, it appears that Jack is even working on himself.
He's Got Lifeless Eyes. Black Eyes. Like a Doll's Eyes...
Well the rabbit really did. Like the black stone Jack found on the Adam and Eve skeletons in White Rabbit. Like the black eye of Locke, as shown in Claire's dream during Raised by Another. Funny how both those episode names pertain to plot points here in 316.
Mirror Mirror
Another very cool aspect of the O6 return involves the role reversals of all the main characters. Some were overly obvious and some were open to interpretation, but the writers drew excellent parallels between the occupants of Oceanic Flight 815 and Ajira Airways flight 316.
Sayid is now Kate - Shackled, sullen, and accompanied by some type of law enforcement official. The male/female roles are reversed here, with Sayid's captor even looking somewhat like Ana Lucia. We don't know who has Sayid or why, if he's truly captured or just acting that way. But why the hell would anyone be shipping him to Guam, and with only a single woman to guard someone as dangerous as Sayid is? It's a straight-up recipe for a classic headbutt/escape.
Hurley is now Charlie - Based upon the real-life holes in our existing judicial system, it's (sadly) not too far of a stretch to say that Hurley got out with Ben's kickass lawyer and some sick bail money. I'm just glad we didn't have to watch a Hurley prison-break episode. As he shows up with the guitar case, it seems pretty obvious that Hugo probably had another sit-down with ghost Charlie. I'd even bet that the guitar actually belonged at one point to his late friend. Maybe Hurley met up with Liam, or maybe he bought it on Ebay. Either way, the guitar got beamed down to the river along with him... the island seems to be trying to put a band together.
Ben is now Hurley - Or at least he arrives that way. Ben is last to board the plane at the very last second, having just made the flight. It had me bemusedly wondering if Ben experienced the same S1 antics that Hurley ran into in his journey from the ticket counter to the gate. Remember that Hurley "wasn't supposed to" make the original flight. A few seasons later there was even more evidence of this, as Hurley stands on the beach, looks to the ocean and claims "I'm not supposed to be here". The actual context of that scene has Hurley 'secretly' talking to Sawyer, but I always suspected it had double meaning. Perhaps Ben is now the person who's not supposed to make the flight - after all, he's not one of the O6. Hurley even uses the words "He's not supposed to be here!" Ben's words to Hurley are interesting also: "Who told you to be here Hugo?" A knowing nod toward his probable brush with Charlie's ghost, but also something more.
Kate is now Claire - Broken, confused, and torn over a decision she just made regarding her child. It's not too far of a stretch here to assume Kate might even be pregnant, too. The plane needs a pregnant chick, and I'm pretty sure Sun hasn't had any hookups. Dunno about coach.
Jack is now Locke (or maybe Ben?) - Suddenly Jack is somewhat of a believer. When Hurley's outburst threatens to derail his position on the flight, Jack reins him in and keeps him calm. Jack's taken some measure of authority here. Okay, maybe I'm stretching it.
Sun is now Vincent - Hehehe... alright, I totally couldn't think of a parallel for Sun. Maybe she's Rose, who after the crash somehow 'knew' her husband to be alive. You guys come up with something. And hey, where the hell is Vincent anyway?
Vozzek, Why are you Saying O6? Only 5 of Them are Returning!
True, but are you gonna be the one to just blow off 2 whole years' worth of Ben = Aaron theories?!?!? Especially when Aaron's the only one of the Oceanic 6 *missing* from the plane, and Ben's the only ex-islander on the plane who's *not* one of the O6? With all the time-traveling crazyness, and with the branches of the LOST family tree twisting incestuously into every corner of the plotline... isn't it at least possible that Ben's backstory was intentionally and falsely fed to us? And if Ben is indeed Aaron, did Kate teach him how to read!?!? Hahahaha!!!
And While We're Out on a Twisted Limb...
Chew on this one: Flight 316 was the plane that crashed in the Indian Ocean... Lapidus was looking at a himself! Spooky? Crazy? An excerpt from 'Things I Noticed - Ji Yeon', last March:
There’s no way I believe that anyone - Widmore, Ben, Bill Gates, The Wizard of Oz, or Bob the Builder with a giant Australia-sized crane actually went through the trouble of painstakingly recreating that crash site. That IS the crash site, because the plane actually crashed.
On a final note, I’ll predict that when Frank Lapidus is looking at the decaying body of the ring-less pilot on the news, he’s really looking at a universally-course corrected version of himself in the cockpit of that plane.
Okay, so I was wrong about the plane being flight 815. But maybe I was right about everything else. How'd the plane get from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean? I'll bet it's lying smack dab on one of Hawking's pendulum points. Does this mean Flight 316 crashes? Looks that way. Does this mean Frank dies in the crash? Damn I hope not. I love his character, and I think we all want to see more of him on the island. My initial thoughts when watching last night were that the O6 (plus Frank) got individually time-flashed back to the island, and Ajira air never crashed at all. So maybe I'm wrong about everything in this whole section! But I had to mention it anyway, because the thought of Lapidus looking at a dead version of himself is so straight up punch-in-the-face Twilight-Zone spooky that I'm really in love with it.
In any case, Hawking mentioned there were several flights crossing the island's hotspot during that time period, but when she pointed out Ajira 316 she said "It must be this flight". I'm betting she knew Lapidus would be the pilot. Just as Widmore used him to find the island two seasons ago, Hawking knows he'll find it again. The good news pointing toward his survival is that Frank was definitely "supposed" to be on flight 815 the first time. The island wants him, and welcomes him. Lapidus also had the best line of the episode: "We're not going to Guam, are we?" Hehehe, gotta love Frank.
Ben's Secret Trip to the UFC Tryouts
Alright. After all the nice-guy things I've been saying about Ben, even I have to admit it looks 99% as if he went on a mission to hunt down and kill Penny. While most people are picking out a book for the flight, Ben's trying to squeeze in a quick assassination attempt. With Desmond back from nautical obscurity, it's best for Ben to strike now - he might not get another chance. His revenge will come with the killing of Widmore's daughter, and he heads to the dock with murder on his mind. Right?
Admittedly, it sure looks that way. But before we lynch him, I'll offer my obligatory 1% alternative explanation as to what happened. And then when I'm done, you guys can decide whether or not to put your torches down.
I think Ben went back to the dock for an entirely different reason: to convince Desmond that he needed to go back to the island. I'm pretty sure Ben knows at this point that Desmond is the game-changer; in the grand scheme of things, getting him back to the island would be like having his own secret weapon. So either Ben tried talking Desmond into returning, or Ben showed Desmond what would happen to him or his family if he didn't go back. And then Desmond proceeded to beat the living piss out of him.
Before you wonder why Ben and Hawking didn't chase Desmond out of the church and try to convince him to stay, keep this in mind: Desmond never arrived on the island by plane crash. Desmond came by boat. And handily enough, Desmond has a boat. And Ben just came out of a whole basement chock full of longitudes and latitudes and projected plot-points as to where they island will be in the future. If Desmond is to return to the island, his own leap of faith will be leaving his family behind. Ben went to sow more seeds, and to leave Desmond with the means to return to the island himself... the way he did the first time.
So the blood on Ben's hands (and face) was his own. And I could totally see Desmond beating the crap out of him for showing up there, too. He'd just stomped all over Hawking's cool floor map and given Jack a severe case of the spook-eye (go back and watch!). Desmond is not currently in the mood for this shit. But whatever Ben may have said to him, I'm sure those words will eventually come to fruition. This will lead Desmond to return much the same way Kate did, if only to protect his family. As Ben told Michael, and as Hawking tells Desmond this episode, the island is not finished with him yet.
You've Got to Lift it Up
One final bit of conjecture about Desmond: I'm starting to think his trip to the stadium where he met jack for the first time (Man of Science, Man of Faith) wasn't accidental or coincidental. I'm even thinking this is a future Desmond traveling back to the past where he knew Jack would be. After a bunch of small talk, out of nowhere Desmond suddenly tells Jack "You've got to lift it up". I've thought since the very beginning that this would pertain to something important much later on. Then someone last week, somewhere, posted a translation of one of the hieroglyphics to be "lift up". Not really sure I read it right, but if someone could find it I'd appreciate looking at it again.
I Wish You had Believed in Me
Locke's one-line suicide note was awesome. It served as a fantastic beyond-the-grave jab to Jack's now already shaken ideology. He doesn't even need to see the note, he's going back already. He pointedly tries to avoid it, but reading it alone like he did might've been the final push Jack needed. "We're all convinced sooner or later, Jack"... and Jack certainly wasn't convinced until later.
Jack's eye-opening jungle wake-up scene was a jarring clone of the opening of the series, yet I don't think any of us were shocked to see it at this point. We've been expecting it for a while now, and many people, including me, have even theorized that this could be how the series might end. Now that we've gotten it out of the way I feel almost a little bit relieved. It was still a very cool scene, and they did a great job of putting Jack back in a suit and tie for it and everything.
The most interesting part of Jack waking up with Locke's suicide note in his hand was the part of the torn note that he happened to have: I WISH. These two words are hauntingly reminiscent of Ben's "whatever you imagined, whatever you wanted to be" speech to Locke back in S3. Once again this all goes back to faith and belief: only through truly believing in something does the island seem to grant it. Disbelief, denial, defiance... these seem to be things the island really can't stand. Just ask Eko.
Locke's note serves to remind Jack that he himself must believe in (or wish) things in a manner consistent with total faith. Only by doing this can he become attuned to the island, and only then can they accomplish whatever goal or destiny they were all brought back there to fulfill.
Jin's Smirk Is Worth a Thousand Words
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING could've been a better ending to that episode than Jin in a Dharma jumpsuit, smirking knowingly at his friends' return to the island. We're going to see a Jin/Sun reunion... Dharma in its prime... maybe we're even going to see the underwater hatch get programmed by a musician. I think I had the same smirk Jin did.
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197 Comments:
FIRST!!!!! Vozzek you are the $h1t!! i always wait for your post to help me make sense of this crazy, awesome, mind-blowing show!!!!
Keep up the good work!!!
i dont quite understand why dharma and the military wanted to find the island originaly? But this episode was amazing! On a par with the constant
i don't think kate is pregnant, i think kate was playing sayid, remember he have had picture of nadya on the plane, i could bet, kate has one with aaron it's reversed role here
this review definitely made me like this episode a lot more! thanks! :)
Good review but I disagree with the part about Kate's destiny being with Sawyer especially if she's pregnant with Jack's baby. Kate has always wanted to stop running, to have a family (she envied the life and baby she could have had with her first doctor love, Tom). Maybe she had to sacrifice Aaron precisely because he wasn't hers and he was the sacrifice that the island demanded Kate make in order for her to get her own redemption and happily ever after ON the island (a family with her doctor love and an actual baby of her own). We know that a baby conceived off island will be able to be born and live on the island (i.e. Aaron) and the writers have shown several scenes about Kate and pregnancy (with Sun ("you're pregnant", "who flies with a pregnancy test?", her negative pregnancy test before she left Kevin, etc.) I also believe Jack will find his redemption on the island in that he CAN be a man of faith, that he does have what it takes regardless of what Christian drummed into him all his life and that he IS GOOD at being a father (to his own child with Kate). I'm also sticking with my guess that Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve. When last shown, those black and white stones were still with Jack and because Jack and Kate found the skeletons.
Nice write up and good ideas about the future.
Kate asking Jack to never ask about Aaron was just stupid. "Oh, Ok, Kate I will never again ask you about your son/my nephew; we'll just live our lives like nothing happened." How dumb is that? The next morning we don't even think about the fact that everyday for the last three years you've had a kid to feed, wash, and entertain each and every day? Instead we try to impress you by remembering how you like your coffee? Hello! No, there's no elephant in the room! Geesh!
Plus no one asks Ben how or why or who beat the bejeebers out of him? Gee, Ben, looks like you had a rough night? Are you OK? What happened? Nothing?? No one says a word?? That's just dumb. People aren't like that.
This show is really starting to bug me. I like the on island parts better.
I'm going with Sun as Rose. Holding her husband's wedding ring, awaiting her husband's safe return.
Love the recap. Espeically the part for Jack\Kate\Sawyer.
I dont think the military really DID want to find the island. They just wanted a place to do testing(blow up Jughead).
So, after a few of their teams disapear, they discover the island. Judging the photo taken, I dont think they sent any more soldiers. I think they, sortive filed the information away.
So, when DHARMA needs a "multi purpose research facility" the army just throws them the islands file(hey remeber that place where all our soldiers kept disapearing? That looks like a good place for a science facility) Here ya go DHARMA;)
Nice job, once again, Vozzek. I agree so far with everything you've mentioned, and have a few extra side notes.
Did you notice the timing of when Ben left Jack in "privacy" to likely to to the restroom eerily similar to that on the first flight. To me it was a proxy reminiscent of Charlie in the restroom doping as the plane turbulance began.
As far as how Ben got into his bloodied state, I think you're right on track with an interaction between Desmond/Penny, etc. Afterall, he was at a marina when he made the pay phone call to Jack.
Don't know how much you're looking into Biblical references, but consider this:
Jill serving as a "Mary Magdalene" type watching over the body of Locke (Jesus) for 72 hours until he could be transported back to the island (resurrection-ville) by Jack- the "doubting Thomas" Ben referred to. Thoughts/connections/concerns?
Great review.
I'm thinking that Ben did go and kill Penny (which would be horrible)...Desmond beat the snot out of him...and then distraught Des sails the ocean blue (with baby Charlie) and gets drawn to the island by the island, because the island isn't finished with him yet. Maybe baby Charlie even growns up to be Jacob, but that's beyond my level of comprehension of the show.
BTW - I sure hope Frank is still alive and grows back his beard...he's just not the same without it.
If you remember, Eko's whackin' stick also said something like... "lift up your eyes and look north" - directed to Locke in the context of John 3:16
Nah, this season is shaping up to be exactly like last season. Half the episodes are mind-blowingly awesome (Because You Left, The Lie, and This Place is Death) and half the episodes make me ponder why I'm even watching (the other 3).
I'd settle for 17 straight great episodes instead of 8 amazing piss your pants awesome and 8 dear-god-what-were-they-thinking episodes.
Now to things /I/ noticed: Ben had his haircut, Frank shaved (he looks terrible shaved), Sayid shaved, Jack just a few days ago shaved, and Hurley has a new haircut. There supposed to be something to that?
I usually don't like your reviews. But this one, with a lighter, more humorous tone to it, is actually very well done.
And I'm glad SOMEBODY ELSE noticed that rabbit's FUNKY eyeball.
The one thing I was wondering in this episode is "Where's JiYeon?"
I'm sure the body count for the Ajira flight would have been different from the Oceanic flight, and the Oceanic plane and Ajira plans would have different logos on them, 'Cause they're different company's.
And I have a feeling Sun/Frank/Ben/Sayid are in a different time period to Jack/Kate/Hurley.
Great review! I do like and agree totally with what you said about Kate and Jack and how it effects Sawyer. A lot of reviewers try to specifically not mention the triangle stuff for fear of sounding like a shipper, so I appreciate your clear head and sound reasoning. It's a big part of Lost and to not mention would be missing something.
However, I don't think Kate's pregnant. It could happen I suppose, but I think it would be too much. Between Claire, Sun and Kate, it would be overkill...but then again we do see a lot of repeating themes. Jack, Locke and Sawyer all have daddy issues. But, I think her wanting a family and all the pregnancy talk/hopes/dreams was a lead up to her care over Aaron. But in the end, it just wasn't meant to be. But we shall see.
I agree with the reason Ben is bloodied up. I don't think Desmond would have let Ben live, let alone walk away, if he had even ATTEMPTED to kill Penny. Originally I thought Sayid may have done it, but his reaction to seeing Ben on the plane didn't really convey that.
Te rabbit actually reminds me of Richard...
One thing I noticed also was when Sayid walked by with the police officer/marshal in the airport there was a huge Oceanic sign on the wall where people were going through the security lines. Why not Ajira?
I also think that because Aaron wasn't on the plane something unpredictable happened as suggested by Ms. Hawking and Sun/Frank/Ben/Sayid all ended up in a different time.
This was definitely the best episode ever! I think you did an excellent job of recapping it today. For those who are frustrated by the unanswered parts of the story that came from them switching episodes, isn't that the way that Lost is always done? We get answers, followed by questions. Next week we should get more of the backstory of 316 but of course we will be left with more unanswered questions.
Maybe this is too picky, but John's note to Jack said "I wish you had believed me", not "I wish you had believed IN me".
The Ajira plane can't be the one at the bottom of the ocean because there was and Oceanic symbol painted on the tail of one they found down there.
I think Locke's suicide note is more of: "I wish you had believed me and never left the island in the first place." It could be more, and we'll be finding out a lot more in the next episode, but that's where my mind went.
Funny. I didn't think this episode was that great. Last week's was much more engaging. However, I am not terribly disappointed as I think of this as one big story, rather than judging it week to week.
Anyway, I thought of an interesting theory of Ben's injuries. While I do think its likely about Penny, the thing that bugs me is that we are being led to believe that. So, when have we seen injuries like this on Ben before? When Sayid tortured him in the Swan. What if this Ben is actually the Swan Ben? Somehow, Ben left the island around that time and came to this time, and the Ben on the plane is not in the same continuity as the Ben that is gathering the O6? Anyway, its freaky enough for me to love that theory, even if its probably crap.
I just had the same revelation Marcia talked about... and being raised Catholic I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier. Here is the apostle's creed:
I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord (while i really do not want Locke to be a Jesus figure, it looks like this is where we are)
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary (Locke's mom told him it was a virgin birth, and his dad was a bit of a ghost but definitely not holy)
Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried (who PP is at this point is questionable..Ben? being vaguely spoiler:: it looks like Locke's suicide may not have been totally self-inflicted)
He descended into hell: The third day he rose again from the dead (what did Locke do in those 70 hours that Ms Hawking spoke of...btw, 70 hours is about 3 days...he will rise again. oh..and locke's dad said he thought he was in hell when he came to the island)
He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty (Locke's body did go into the heaven's via Ajira..but while still dead...or is he? the right hand of God...who is the almighty in Lost? Jacob? but God loved you as he loves Jacob...)
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead (very interesting prediction)
I believe in the Holy Ghost: I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints: The forgiveness of sins: The resurrection of the body: And the life everlasting. Amen (the forgiveness of sins is what the island is all about. the resurrection [or reincarnation] of locke, and life everlasting: see richard, among others.)
And the Mirrored Ajira flight..I thought Kate might be "late" in their "fate"d flight. My friend suggested she is on drugs a-la Charlie. However, I do not think that she gave Aaron to Ms Littleton. Why wouldn't she be able to tell Jack that she did that? Ms Littleton is Aaron grandma and everyone knows that, I don't think it would be such a hushed up thing. She was acting like she buried the kid alive...I don't think that's what happened, but it seemed much worse than giving the kid to his grandmother.
Last note: "Man of Science, Man of Faith"
Jack: I don't believe in destiny.
Locke: Yes, you do. You just don't know it yet.
a few things
why was ana lucia so serious in telling hurley to not get arrested when it really had no effect on him, and he seems to not want to speak to jack, a lil cold if u ask me. kate seems very doped up I swear she's acting like a fiend, and I'm not sayin I wish her character was killed but even evangeline lilly doesn't like her character and she uses jack once again, I hope when she sees sawyer happy wit someone else jack doesn't let her bounce back to him as usual. when she told him they weren't together it was so ice cold I wish he would leave her in the jungle, I wonder what kind of dream she had to make her return. I think sun and sayid and the guy from vantage point are on the island but captured by the others. and I fully believe ben is on the island and will see his younger self and we'll see why he took alex again maybe he won't take her this time around.
who else was waiting for a briefcase to bang the air marshall in the head and split her head open???
a few things
why was ana lucia so serious in telling hurley to not get arrested when it really had no effect on him, and he seems to not want to speak to jack, a lil cold if u ask me. kate seems very doped up I swear she's acting like a fiend, and I'm not sayin I wish her character was killed but even evangeline lilly doesn't like her character and she uses jack once again, I hope when she sees sawyer happy wit someone else jack doesn't let her bounce back to him as usual. when she told him they weren't together it was so ice cold I wish he would leave her in the jungle, I wonder what kind of dream she had to make her return. I think sun and sayid and the guy from vantage point are on the island but captured by the others. and I fully believe ben is on the island and will see his younger self and we'll see why he took alex again maybe he won't take her this time around.
who else was waiting for a briefcase to bang the air marshall in the head and split her head open???
Does it really look like Jin is smirking in the end? It looks more like astonished bewilderment to me, especially in the HQ screencaps on this site.
He jumps out of the van and points his gun until he realizes who's in the water. He might be happy, but he's also shocked to see three people who shouldn't be on the island, especially where he is in time...
I love your reviews, but i think you're completely wrong about Jack and Kate. So what it didn't work out off the island? That in no way means that they never loved each other and it will get "erased".
Kate and Sawyer seem so little next to the Jack and Kate story right now. An engagement, a family and now a possible pregnancy are a lot more than a two-three week cofusing thing. Kate/Jack pairing is so much more central to the show it's been set since the very beginning, i just don't see the writers switching such a strong story for any other.
Kate is annoying the bejeebees out of me! First it's "I've always been with you, Jack" to the not so cryptic "we may be on the plane but it doesn't mean we're together". Yeah, she'll probably be pregnant but head back to Sawyer and,you know what? I DON'T CARE! I'd actually like to see her join Charlotte, Christian and all the other island ghosties, personally, and let someone with a spine, say Juliet, take over.
Anyway, very nice recap with some thought provoking points, Vozzek69. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the new passengers (female marshall and the guy that told Jack he was sorry about his friend) and how they fit in.
I say that Aaran was sent to Korea to live with Sun's mother and grandmother. It would make Sun's comment to her daughter that "I found a friend for you to play with" make sense as well as make Kate feel she was keeping him out of harms way.
I say that Aaran was sent to Korea to live with Sun's mother and grandmother. It would make Sun's comment to her daughter that "I found a friend for you to play with" make sense as well as make Kate feel she was keeping him out of harms way.
I meant to say Sun's daughter and mother, not mother and grandmother. Sorry.
Vozzek, I've read you for many years and have always been impressed with your insight. But for the first time I very much have the belief that you are a plant from the PR house of the show. How could you possibly like an episode that served no other purpose except to setup more off-island flashback shows about the O6. All season long you've been saying how Jack, Kate, Sun, Hurley, Sayid, and Ben have thoroughly bored you, and now you're happy that we're going to be getting the Kate giving up Aaron flashback show, along with another one that is Sayid getting arrested, Hurley getting out of jail, and Ben killing Penny. These are surely coming, and I for one wanted to get back to the island, as you have been screaming all season. I hope I'm wrong, but your post today smacked of a PR house trying to say, keep the fanboys happy.
I can't buy that Kate willingly gave up Aaron; that she would just suddenly part ways with him after how they've built up her relationship with and protectiveness of him. I think some outside force intervened (perhaps the island working its main-land magic) and took him away or something happened to him. I'm not buying the notion that the island needs each person to "believe" in order to come back. It seems Sayid is being brought there unwillingly.
Hopefully we'll be finding out the nature of the circumstances which got Kate, Sayid, and Hurley to be on that flight.
I am wondering if the people with the dart guns that Sayid encountered were sent by Widemore. Then maybe his people met up with Kate, Sayid and Hurley and that's why they ended up on the plane. Or maybe just Kate and Sayid...I like the idea of Hurley being convinced by the dead people he sees. Kate could have been given the choice of losing Aaron and going to prison or losing him and going back to the island....
Totally awesome. I love reading your thoughts every week!!!! thanks!
Nice write up, though regarding season 5's quality - we've still only had two above average episodes so far. It started off pretty poorly and has only recently begun to compete with season 1.
I agree about the "lift it up" moment. So much so that I even named my own Lost blog after it -- I'm really surprised that at this point, with Desmond being such a key character, more hasn't come of it. His "I'll see you in another life" certainly turned out to be true, and the way he said "Lift it up," like he was trying to impart urgent wisdom on someone unlikely to listen, has always stuck with me.
If they had to try to get as many of the same people on the flight as possible...where was Walt?
It seems clear to me that Kate is done with Jack. Totally agree with your post on that. Its about time!
Looking forward to the Sawyer/Kate reunion.
My problem is that with the supposed infamy of the 06 - wouldn't some outsider say, 'oh snap, there's all them plane crash people all together again on the same flight, and they're kind of acting strangely, I should have nothing to worry about'
- little too easy (from what we've seen thus far) to get them all together
- I would of liked for the writers to subtley show the proxies instead of explicitly telling us what they are, I mean, come on, they're kind of ruining our fun
It's funny--"Corny" is the exact word I used to describe this episode. I still enjoyed it--especially the more-careful-than-usual cinematography, but the church basement scenes were just too stark of an unloading, in my book. The 'real world' (off Island) just can't be very useful to this story any more, and this transitional episode was more awkward than the day after a company merger.
Loved your recap. I wish you were right about this plane being the plane in the Indian Ocean but as another poster said, the Indy Plane is an Oceanic - not Ajira. But I don't think it is as simple as Kate giving Aaron to Claire's mother. Just by the weird look on her face and the weird way she wandered into Jack's apt... and told Jack to never again ask her about what she did with Aaron makes me believe that girl has just been through something really weird - a real mind freak Twighligt Zone moment. Kate looked as if she had seen a Ghost (Ghost Claire maybe). And this event is what caused Kate to decide to return to the Island. Kate wouldn't tell Jack not to ever ask her about the experience if she simply left Aaron with his MeeMaw....SOMETHING WEIRD HAPPENED...we shall see.
I tend to agree with CRM5 that maybe Aaron was sent to be with Ji Yeon or Cassidy. Maybe Claire "revisited" Kate with another warning. Very much looking forward to finding out what happened to Sun, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Ben during those hours away from Jack before boarding the plane.
I really loved this recap but what no one has mentioned or theorized about is Jack's grandfather, Ray. Did anyone else get the impression that he knows everything about the island and that he knew Jack would need those shoes? And what is Jack's role in this whole story? We've been told over and over that he's the hero of the show, the central character, but if Locke is Jesus, who does that make Jack? I get the correlation with the Doubting Thomas, but is that the furthest his character goes?
I was wondering about Ji Yeon as well. Does Sun think she can get Jin and get off the island again? Did Widmore give her the way off?
And lastly, when you die and are sent to a funeral home, there is a process to prepare you for burial. They basically take everything out of you and stuff you with material similar to couch cushioning...so if Locke has "died" and is supposedly coming back to life in the next episode, how does that work? Is he still whole and that's why he needed to be in cold storage?
"All season long you've been saying how [the O6] have thoroughly bored you, and now you're happy that we're going to be getting the [O6] flashback show... These are surely coming, and I for one wanted to get back to the island, as you have been screaming all season."
Well, as someone who's always liked the O6 stuff equal to the island stuff, I agree we'll be getting these flashbacks, and I look forward to it. The genius of what they did with 316 is that now the people who want to see the O6 move forward on the island can do so, all while the writers are at the same time filling in the stories that all the 06 fans want to continue to see developed at a good pace.
The trouble with 316 was that it seemed to plunge us forward so awkwardly without explanation/motivation for each character... that makes it pretty awkward in and of itself, breaking the flow of the season. However, it will probably make for some killer classic flashback-style eps very soon. Personally, I can't wait.
Jack's Grandpa? Anyone?
They should have begun the season 5 O6 story with an episode like this. It's amazing they thought anyone would care about it in the 5 episodes we were given before now.
As for the fate of the Ajira plane and its occupants, I think we need look back a few episodes, where the on-Islanders came across the camp in the future (future of the crash time, that is). There was an Ajira water bottle there.
I suspect that the leftover occupants crashed on the Island, and have taken over the camp in 2008. They apparently weren't affected by the flash, so they stayed in their time frame, unlike the O6.
Why would the Ajira crash survivors shoot at 815ers, you may ask? Their dugout was stolen!
Making fun of Hurley's weight is NOT amusing.
Who beat up Ben?
"Making fun of Hurley's weight is NOT amusing."
But if we make fun of fat people then perhaps they'll be frustrated into becoming healthier...?
Great post Vozzek, as usual.
What got me thinking in this episode was mainly Eloise Hawking.
I have a strong feeling that she is, too, supposed to go back to the island. Maybe she's actually the ONE that needs to go back to fix everything that's going awry since the 50's. (Since people found the island after the native civilization got extinct or something...)
Maybe she left back then (with Widmore, him being the father of Faraday ?), like the 06 did (maybe to prevent her pregnancy death), but now needs to go back there.
This idea came to me when Desmond reminded everyone that SHE is supposed to help them... not the others, as told by Faraday.
From the beginning of the season, Faraday was clearly trying to make contact with her, but never acknowledged what Locke was trying to do (i think, remind me if i'm wrong) on his own.
Maybe her window is "closed" now, and she can't go back (look at her face when she says that they need to be on THAT plane and in that window... she looks kind of sad or distressed, like she didn't get this chance herself). Maybe she tries to get them here to ultimately re-open her window or something...
Or maybe she could go back (she seems to know the ways...) but doesn't want to for a reason. Which is actually interesting because Widmore (which is related to her if she's indeed Ellie... which seems pretty sure now) wants to go back, but doesn't seem to know how.
On another point, the mention of "several pockets of electro magnetic energy" was strangely similar to Isaac of Uluru speech to Rose in season 2. Seriously, if the show wasn't entirely planned from at least season 2... a lot already was at least. Isaac said "maybe it's magnetic... maybe it's something else". Yeah it's definitely not just magnetic...
Oh by the way, who also thinks "the very clever fellow" who built the pendulum is Faraday ? (in a time-travelling twist the show is preparing us to since the start of the season)
Finally, i think Kate is pregnant. I mean, they took time to make it clear Jack and her had sex that last night... which wasn't entirely necessary if it wasn't for that.
Oh well lots of thought... :)
Anyone know where in the Bible Thomas says he will follow Jesus, and perhaps die?
Robert, Sweden
Will - I do not have anything against anyone that has liked the O6 storyline. I just find it oddly inconsistent that Vozzek in particular has been writing each week about how little he cares about the off island story, and suddenly he thinks 316 is a great episode even though it really only serves to pose lots of questions that will only be answered by more off island O6 flashbacks.
Ok,
I found it myself.
John 11:16.
Reading before and after make much sense watching this great episod.
Robert - Sweden
So, anyone thinking that Hurley programs the Looking Glass. He shows up with a guitar case, they think he is a musician, he gets assigned to security and programs that looking glass. I think it could be, he is from LA so I could see him picking the beach boys song good vibrations.
Maryland 118 49 said:
"Anyone know where in the Bible Thomas says he will follow Jesus, and perhaps die?
Robert, Sweden"
John 11:16 (King James Version)
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellow disciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.
I haven't read through all the comments so sorry if this has been said before. I don't agree with you when you say the plane crashed on the water somewhere on the Indic ocean and that Frank was in fact looking at himself on the TV. Remember 2 episodes ago when Locke's group found the beach camp and in the camp they found some products of Ajira airlines? I think that the plane did crash on the island and the survivors are now the new losties. That's about it :)
@ Vozz,
Thanks for making a very mundane episode for me, a bit more enjoyable. Maybe it’s because I watched it alone last night that it was not as good. But it seemed like lets just get from AB episode, that had to be told.
I haven’t seen anyone on here mention anything about WHY is Hurley bringing the guitar back?
- It may bring Charlie back to life on the island.
- Or maybe Charlie is already alive and well working at the looking glass station programming in the code.
- Or maybe it’s the very same guitar that Lock showed Charlie, and Hurley planted it there years ago so that things will continue to happen they way they did.
As far a Ben’s bloody mess face, I think he may have I definitely thought he went to go kill Penny. But maybe something happened when he got there to change his mind.
As far as Ben being Aaron, we’ve seen both of them being born, pretty sure they are not the same person.
***About Jack’s grandpa, I’m certain that he is Jacob’s son, making Jack Jacob’s great grandson.*** And I think the rabbit was there to act as imagery for what was about to happen, meaning Jack following the rabbit (shoes/Locke) down the hole.***
Jin’s reaction to me was weird; it seemed to take him WAY too long to recognize who he was pointing a gun at. Maybe I’m thinking too much about that one.
Now on to, WHO took the picture of “US ARMY OP 264”. If you look at the dates…
PHOTO TAKEN: 9/23/54
815 Crashes: 9/22/04
http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/wp-content/gallery/5x06-easter-eggs/photo.jpg
There is something to that. (Obviously, it’s LOST) Especially the point someone has made about all of the crew of Flight 815 wearing 1950’s wings on their coats.
My guess is that one of Sheppard’s relatives took it, or even Kate’s Dad while he was touring in active duty. But this brings up the question of who knew about the Island first? DHARMA or the US ARMY? Because Hawking says they built that station to FIND the Island, my guess is that was the first DHARMA station ever built. (If so that is one strong WiFi Card in the Hatch PC). I know DHARMA wasn’t around till the 70’s, but I think they found it fist. Most likely because Alvar Hanso, found Tovar Hanso’s diary from the black rock. Then the US military found out about it.
Lastly where the hell are Cindy and the Kids?
morelostthanever said...
... Kate wouldn't tell Jack not to ever ask her about the experience if she simply left Aaron with his MeeMaw...
ROFL. I agree.
Although I love LOST and I like the direction the story is going, I hated this episode. Too much humanly uncharacterstic behaviour that made me shake my head in disbelief. There were no credible questions asked by the Group returning to the island. They just went along with the flow as though it were no big deal to follow directions of an odd woman with a huge pendulum and a map on the floor to guide her. She walks through a DHARMA door the basement of a church with none of our group really batting an eyelash at this situation. I think JACK would believe HAWKING to be a lunatic and need a bit more convincing before he signed on. Kate is a mystery which I hope they clear up. She went from "NO WAY, YOU'RE ALL CRAZY" to "YEAH IT's ALL GOOD" in the blink of an eye. No-one Freaked seeing Ben with blood on him. Instead, they accepted it like he was just late for dinner (Except Hurley---who freaked for another reason). In the real world Ben would not be allowed to board the plane looking as he did. For that matter, I find it hard to believe that JACK easily coaxed FRANK out of the Cockpit just with the sheer mentioning of his name. (Especially in this POST 9-11, paranoid world). This episode seemed like a rushed MISH-MOSH of an excuse for the writers to get the Group back on the island with no regard to real life behaviors. Very odd for LOST.
Did anyone else notice that when the camera focused on Locke's face in the casket (while Jack was putting the shoes on his body), there was at least a day's worth of beard growing?
The last time we saw his body in the casket was at the funeral parlor, and his face was completely clean shaven. Does this mean that he is not "completely dead" but rather "mostly dead".....?
Also, if he died without having made arrangements, the funeral home wouldn't go to the expense of embalming. That could explain why his body needs to be kept cold.
Awesome episode, awesome season, awesome show!!
"But why the hell would anyone be shipping him to Guam, and with only a single woman to guard someone as dangerous as Sayid is? "
Here's something to add to that question.
Why in FIRST CLASS?
@imgodhere,
I agree with you dude. That episode was very rushed, like they didn't have time to give us details and fit everything in, I hope that is the only episode like that the rest of the way.
Maryland 118 49 said...
Anyone know where in the Bible Thomas says he will follow Jesus, and perhaps die?
Robert, Sweden
It is either in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Probably Luke.
Anyone else remember Sayid being behind jack at the ticket counter in Sydney while Jack was getting hassled about flying with a body? Sayid told him "Sorry for your loss." Now we have another ethnic stranger standing behind Jack at the ticket counter while he gets hassled about flying with a body. What does the stranger say to him? "Sorry for your loss." He also happens to be played by a man named Said, which is odd. Cuse has revealed the character's name and also said he's “an important part of the setup for the final act of the show in season 6.”
I find it quite hard to believe that one could sail around the world as quickly as Desmond seemingly can - unless a third timeframe has been introduced here (island time-hopping, O6 day-to-day, Desmond and crew leaping by weeks). He sailed from the Phillipines to England, THEN from England to LA in what seemed to be waaaaaay less then the given 70 or so hours?
Anyway - Sun is Sayid (Sayid had a pic of his lost, but looking for, loved one, Sun has a ring for her lost, but looking for, loved one).
Sayid is Kate, Kate is Claire (that is why she was shown to be so 'in-the-friggin-mood' right after giving up Aaron, or whatever she did to/with him), Ben is Sawyer (just killed someone?), Locke for Christian, Aaron was not on the flight as a 'born' human, Hurley for Charlie, no idea for Jin (maybe 'condolences dude'?), Rose and hubby are not major enough characters to worry about, Desmond will 'rapid-sail' to the island as that is how he first got there.
I thought the explanation for how to get back was hokey at best - I buy the whole "it will be here at this point in space/time", or even "John never blew up the submarine, which is why he was dripping wet - when we all know you don't get wet climbing into a sub to plant explosives and then climb right back out - and it's pointed in the right direction, just press the green GO button", but the whole "re-create it as best you can" bit was a bit of shark-jumpage. Pray they stopped the bad writing there and that the Lost OMFG!!!! of old comes back.
I always love your commentary after each episode and wanted to add one thing.
I had always believed that Aaron was technically not part of the original "Oceanic 6" from the very beginning even though the writers wanted us to assume this.
I believe the real Oceanic 6 are returning to the island though -Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and....Locke, even if he is dead.
"I agree with you dude. That episode was very rushed, like they didn't have time to give us details and fit everything in, I hope that is the only episode like that the rest of the way."
These comments are getting irritating. Since when have they EVER given us all of the details at once? Try never. That's what the flashbacks were for, and that's what they'll be for again. If you're hoping that it's the only episode the rest of the way that doesn't give you every detail and every answer for the things you're seeing, then you will be sorely disappointed. Frankly, I don't what show you've been watching up til now. Stick to Two and a Half Men. They'll give you all the details, I'm sure...
Dave,
When a newly dead body starts the decaying process, the skin starts to tighten and recede. As a result, the hair (and fingernails, for that matter) appear to grow.
As for the location of Aaron, it's quite possible that he is with Cassidy and Clementine. We know that Sawyer asked a promise out of Kate, and it would be more likely that Sawyer would've asked on their behalf, instead of anyone else. It could be that Kate formed a friendship with Cassidy, and Clementine may be close to Aaron in age.
Good recap, it´s truth. But I didn´t watch this episode yet.
Desmond and Jack´s conection and Jack,Ben and Locke´s conection, I love it very much.
In the beginning, there are Jack´s eyes again, like in Pilot, it´s so great, it´s as now, that it´s beginning of all again.
I´m looking for this episode, I want to see Jack as more man of faith, I really hope, that Jack really will end up as epic and mythology character in this tv show, it´s, what I need.
I don´t want Kate to be pregnant, I want just great relationship of Jack and Kate again, not as lovers, I don´t need Jack in the Dharma Bed, if writers and Sawyer´s fans want getting of Kate and Sawyer together, so please, that you will do it very fast and no more sex scenes of Jack and Kate, it´s so stupid, I wanted this, that Kate and Jack huged eachother in this sneak peek at the end and no sex:((
As far as the kate/Aaron business goes, the only way I see kate giving up aaron is if she was so threatened that she knew she had to disappear to save him - none of the second thoughts about it not being her baby... I do like the idea he went to Korea with Sun, "i found you a new friend" bit...
And I will BET Charlie programmed that song somehow...
"I find it quite hard to believe that one could sail around the world as quickly as Desmond seemingly can - unless a third timeframe has been introduced here (island time-hopping, O6 day-to-day, Desmond and crew leaping by weeks). He sailed from the Phillipines to England, THEN from England to LA in what seemed to be waaaaaay less then the given 70 or so hours?"
Logic would tell you that once he knew he had to get all the way to Los Angeles with an important message he probably flew. That would be my guess. Then again, with all of the sci-fi/supernatural elements at play here, does it matter? If I can swallow a time jumping island, people rising from the dead, time loops, smike monsters, and lord knows what else, are you really going to have a hard time believing how fast Desmond may travel via boat??? All that other stuff is perfectly acceptable to you, but you draw the line at fast sailboats???
It felt like it flew by in half the time. It wasn't the best episode in the world, but it was so wildly different in tone and taste that it didn't seem to belong in the S5 lineup. And yet when it ended, it still managed to snap into the season like an irregularly-shaped puzzle piece.
this is EXACTLY how i felt after watching this episode!!
@TRACY
"JUMPED THE SHARK"! That is exactly how I felt about this episode. Let's hope not. I will give the writers the benefit of a collective Brain-fart with hope of "REDEMPTION" in their future storylines.
Something I found interesting after all of the C.S. Lewis discussions last week was that Ms. Hawking's Dharma Station was named The Lamp-Post. In the Chronicles of Narnia the lamp-post acted as a sort of beacon guiding the children into Narnia, the magical world that grown-ups said didn't exist (as Charlotte's mother told her of the island).
There is apparently a "Narnia wiki" which has more info about it: http://narnia.wikia.com/wiki/Lamp-post
>>>CMR5 said...
I say that Aaran was sent to Korea to live with Sun's mother and grandmother. It would make Sun's comment to her daughter that "I found a friend for you to play with" make sense as well as make Kate feel she was keeping him out of harms way.<<<
Hmmm, that's a good thought there. Never thought of it.
Another thought is that Christian Shephard's ghost is actually Locke, reincarnated. Hawking said strange things could happen if things were not exactly the same, and christian shephard's ghost definitely tries to guide jack from the beginning (to the water in the first season, and guiding past locke throughout...).
And what is the deal with the guy behind jack in line? He is definitely one of the "6" for now...
Good Review Vozzek!
I think more important than the Hurley is Charlie, Sayid is Kate stuff is the fact that the missing passengers are represented by items that belonged to them. Hawking was adamant that something (anything) that belonged to Christian had to be given to Locke. It sure looks like we see Jin's ring, Charlie's guitar, Christian's shoes, etc. all on the plane. Hurley had a comic book. Perhaps belonging to Walt.
I really enjoyed this episode as it focused on the characters rather than the mythology. There has to be that balance and I for one love it.
I don't see the writers getting Kate pregnant. I don't believe Aaron needed a proxy because he hadn't been born yet at the time of the first crash.
Kate was definitely Claire on this flight but simply because she was Aaron's mother and was torn about having to give up her child.
You are FANTASTIC :) this was so entertaining as well as you read my mind for the most part. It was a great episode, for sure. Yes, Aaron does have a gigantic head and no one ever seemed to agree with me on it. :] kudos for sure
Background on the comic Hurley was reading:
*** WARNING: Spoilers for Y: The Last Man ***
Y: The Last Man - A plague hits the world, and all men save one die to the plague. This one, Yorick, starts a trip across the country to a genetics lab in California for answers.
In the specific issue that Hurley is reading, we find out that there are 2 male and 1 female astronauts aboard the ISS, who need to come back to Earth, due to dwindling supplies. They don't know if the plague is still present or not. Once they land, the two males die from the plague.
So, any correlation to the O6? I can see where the O6 might start being affected similarly to those left behind. Did Locke turning the wheel stop the flashes and the nosebleeds, or will the O6 become similarly affected?
I must be the only one who noticed that there was a big H carved into Ben's forehead. Which leads me to believe, and hope, that it was carved there by Desmond Hume. I imagine the scene went down like this. (Ben shows up to kill Penny, and ends up in a confrontation with Des.) "I'll teach ya to mess with my family brotha!" (Desmond proceeds to etch H for Hume on Ben noggin before running him off.) It sounds like wishful thinking but I can dream. Oh and I also believe the reason no one asked why Ben was so beat up was because he is a troublesome git.
"So, any correlation to the O6? I can see where the O6 might start being affected similarly to those left behind. Did Locke turning the wheel stop the flashes and the nosebleeds, or will the O6 become similarly affected?"
Actually, you missed the biggest connection between Y and LOST. It was written by Brian K. Vaughan, who happens to be one of Lost's producers.
I don't think that it was the Ajira flight on the bottom of the ocean. The Oceanic logo was clearly visible in the episode and the Ajira flight was a smaller plane than Oceanic 815 was.
But, the rest of the review was great!
"Oh and I also believe the reason no one asked why Ben was so beat up was because he is a troublesome git."
Or because approximately 90% of the time he's spent with them, he's looked exactly like that.
Excellent insights, as always.
One point to reinforce how Aaron is Ben:
When Ben was on the plane, Jack asked him how he could read. Ben responded "my mother taught me." But how could his mother teach him if she died during child birth?
"But how could his mother teach him if she died during child birth?"
Just sounded like a smart-ass joke to me. Kind of like "It points north John..."
^ because maybe... just maybe... he's lying/joking.
yeah, that was aimed at steve.
Did anyone else notice that there are two versions of the letter that John wrote to Jack? The one that Jack reads on the plane the i is dottet over the s in 'wish.' In te letter that Jack reads on the island the i is dotted over the i. Seems like we are seeing many doubles. Charlie's letter in "Greatest Hits" was different also, etc.
Just something I noticed...
"Actually, you missed the biggest connection between Y and LOST. It was written by Brian K. Vaughan, who happens to be one of Lost's producers."
True, but why that particular issue/image? The producers have always been very careful about what props they use, so it's very hard not to read more into it.
This is the first time that I didn’t like Lost. Along our Lost journey, there have been plot devices and character choices that I disagreed with, but I still liked the show. Until now.
I was SO ready to meet Mrs. Hawkings again, and have some major questions answered. Alas. Hawkings was too campy. “Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing,” as Shakespeare said. I hated the way Hawkings minced down the dark hallway, looking back over her shoulder to throw ominous looks at her followers. Hated her fairy tale voice rendering about The Island – come ON people, wasn’t this supposed to be science based?
And what has happened to reasonable Jack? He’s ready to be in another plane crash without much to go on. If I were Jack I would have wanted a whole lot of things ‘splained to me before I was willing to take another plunge from 35,000 feet. Why didn’t he say, “Ben, wtf are you? What was Dharma really doing? Why is Richard ageless? What is the smoke monster?” Personally I don’t think Jack has enough info, and I think those Hawkings scenes were causing the audience to shake with the loss of credibility. I thought Matt Fox looked like he wasn’t buying it either. “That’s….ridiculous,” he says lamely. If he’d said, “That’s just silly,’ about half the audience might have agreed, and turned off their plasmas then and there.
And this thing about recreating the original flight – same people, clothes, shoes –to try to get back – well it’s just silly. Even the Pevensie children learned you can’t get back to Narnia that way. (Hello Lampost, whatcha knowin?) And Lapidus—why didn’t he simply say, “Nice to see you Jack,” go back in his cockpit, and turn the plane around. What pilot is willing to crash a plane with (at least some) innocent passengers aboard?
LOVE Desmond’s new decisiveness, first with Widmore, now Hawkings. Too often, a smirky know-it-all mystery person has intoned some kind of outrageous pronouncement and everyone drinks the kool-aid.. But now Desmond has held his own with Widmore, and was not taken in by Gloria Sawnson –er, Eloise Hawkings, either. You go Desmond, as far away as possible!
As for Ben’s injuries, I’m not sure they’re from a fistfight. It seemed to be mostly on one side of his face, and the arm on that side. You might expect that a fight would cause a black eye, bruise on the cheekbone, split lip. But no, Ben looked like he’d been scratched or scraped up. And that arm. A lot of folks have been dragged through scratchy jungle floors and/or ended up “disarmed.” Wonder who/what Ben tangled with?
Well, I’ll be back for more. I wonder if The Island selectively sucked who it wanted from the plane and left the rest to safely travel to Guam. Tough thing to explain to NTSB though (Well, during this storm, see, some of the passengers fell out.” So I’m still drawn inexorably to see what happens next. But my foundation has been shaken.
I haven't seen anybody mention yet the book Ben was reading on the plane. I couldn't make it out, thought at first it was Odyseeus, which would make sense, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Surely, it was something of significance. Secondly, what to make of Ben's snide, "My mother taught me" comment regarding how he can read?
"there have been plot devices and character choices that I disagreed with, but I still liked the show. Until now."
I wish all the people that say something like this would actually stop watching once they feel like they no longer like it. The powers that be have never been concerned with the attrition of the audience enough to change their direction, and they certainly won't this late in the game. Honestly if I had to whine this much about a show, you can be sure I wouldn't watch anymore. I certainly wouldn't come to a site like this to complain about a show I don't like anymore. I think 316 was an excellent episode. After 88 episodes, if 40 minutes of questions and campiness on a show as far fetched as Lost is enough to make you go from liking it, to not liking it, then just stop watching it. Find something else to do from 9-10 on Wednesdays.
"I haven't seen anybody mention yet the book Ben was reading on the plane. I couldn't make it out, thought at first it was Odyseeus, which would make sense, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Surely, it was something of significance. Secondly, what to make of Ben's snide, "My mother taught me" comment regarding how he can read?"
It was Odysseus.
And I think people are making too much of Ben's remark. I think it was a joke.
Vozz says:
"Hawking spent three minutes jamming fistfuls of answers down our throats."
Katherine says:
"Personally I don’t think Jack has enough info, and I think those Hawkings scenes were causing the audience to shake with the loss of credibility."
Vozz says:
"Sci-fi is a cool genre, but I hate when it leans toward being overly technical. I have to say Hawking's lecture was a little too high in the midichlorian count for me."
Katherine says:
"Hated her fairy tale voice rendering about The Island – come ON people, wasn’t this supposed to be science based?"
How can two people have such completely opposite reactions to the exact same scene?
The writers just can't win.
Though I will say this: If half of people think there are too many answers and half that there are too few, if half of people think things are too scientific and the other half that things aren't scientific enough, then I think the writers have succeeded perfectly.
Blake said...
I can't buy that Kate willingly gave up Aaron; that she would just suddenly part ways with him after how they've built up her relationship with and protectiveness of him. I think some outside force intervened
==========================
We'll find out soon enough. Since as of right now it's just silly that Sayid, Hurley, and Kate would suddenly fall into place after Sayid and Kate were so against going back.
Someone (maybe Locke resurrected himself and then went back off the island AGAIN [possibly in ghosty undead Locke form] or something?) had to have been very convincing and forceful to get them to go back. Of course, only Jack and Ben have ever even seen the body...
We'll find out though, I guess.
"And this thing about recreating the original flight – same people, clothes, shoes –to try to get back – well it’s just silly."
It's not silly at all. The writers have already prepared us for it in previous episodes. The French team, for example, bore some striking similarities to the 815 people (a pregnant woman, a musician, etc.). It seems pretty clear that the island is constantly searching for groups of people who meet certain qualifications. Thus, they had to reproduce the original flight in order to get the island's attention and increase their odds of ending back on the island. This is no more unreasonable than plenty of other things we've seen over the years; if this bothers you, how did you survive everything up to this point?
"It was Odysseus."
That's not a book.
But I think someone mentioned it was Ulysses.
Frank didn't sound all too cheerful with his "We're not going to Guam, are we?" Why didn't he just turn the plane around ?
"That's not a book.
But I think someone mentioned it was Ulysses."
Uh....they're the same thing. Ulysses is the Latin name, Odysseus is Greek.
I just re-watched the episode and it was Ulysses that he was reading.
"Uh....they're the same thing. Ulysses is the Latin name, Odysseus is Greek."
touche, although there's little doubt as to what it's more known as in our language.
good write up.
I too think that the 316'ers are in different time periods. And Juliette probably capped one of the Arija redshirts in the outrigger chase.
I doubt this will happen but I can't help thinking how funny it would be if 316 didn't crash, but O6or5 flashed out of plane sans Ben. Can you imagine the look on his face if he came out of bathroom and Jack and gang had disappeared without him. His eyes would pop the rest of the way out of his head.
Nice review Vozzek, you're really a good writter.
Now, I commenting because I've noticed that when Jack was swimming to Kate and he "pick" her up he didn't do anything of what a doctor should have done. He simply heard her heart beat to check if she was alive, and then just waited for her to wake up, some kind like he BELIEVED that she had not have a major injury.
I'm thinking that Jack is ,in Locke's believe chronology, in 22th September 2004, the day he had the proof that everything we was step for, was for a reason. Actually, both start being believers after a crash (815 and 316).
PS: I'm sorry for any English mistakes ...
Plane at the bottom of the ocean can't be Ajira - we've seen it already and it has Oceanic livery. So unless the crash magically changed the plane's paint job, it ain't the same plane.
Or maybe Ben did go to kill Penny, and succeeded, and now Desmond will come to the island on his boat to get his revenge.
I'm so glad that we had the same favorite line in the episode. I literally was jumping up and down in my kitchen after Lapidus delivered that line.
This is good stuff!
Im guessing that the losties time skipped back to the same time as sawyer etc. And the rest of the people on the flight crashed on the island at the actual time the plane went down.
This would explain sawyer, locke etc. Finding their camp used up and then being chased by mysterious people.
about the way that hawking talked about the island:
i felt like she was a tour guide giving historical information to a group of students hahaha
re: when Locke/sawyer group took the canoe. Maybe it -was- the second group of the Ajira people shooting. I think if it was we will see that there was a build up to the point.. IE: scared people on a beach who have endured the monster, and others thinking they are chasing 'others' fed up with everything and the last straw... they stole their boat.
The ODI said...
It felt like it flew by in half the time. It wasn't the best episode in the world, but it was so wildly different in tone and taste that it didn't seem to belong in the S5 lineup. And yet when it ended, it still managed to snap into the season like an irregularly-shaped puzzle piece.
- well put!
Zorro said:
The writers just can't win.
Though I will say this: If half of people think there are too many answers and half that there are too few, if half of people think things are too scientific and the other half that things aren't scientific enough, then I think the writers have succeeded perfectly.
lol, exactly. Maybe Ben's recent altercation that left him bloodied and beaten is supposed to be symbolic of the LOST writers. jk. ;o)
Great review except the Jack/Kate/SAwyer part. No offense, but relationship stuff isn't your strong point. I tend to agree with Doc Jensen more on his take in the Jate scenes. If Kate is pregnant with Jack's baby, as everyone is suspecting, and then gets back with Sawyer that would be very nasty. No way the writers would do this. And Kate is very likely pregnant, why else would they need there to be pre-island travel, implied sex between Jate? Served no other purpose as they could have just as easily had them only kiss.
I love how everyone is saying the old Kate is back with her treatment of Jack the next morning and her obvious distress in having to give up Aaron but this isn't a good thing people. Kate was happy as a Mother in her life with Jack (as you pointed out Vozz) That is who she wants to be--not the closed-off Kate we saw the morning-after. When she and Sawyer finally reconnect (and it will be a moving reunion I'm sure) I'm pretty sure they will both find they are completely different people who are much better suited to be friends.
The happily-ever-after will be with Jack.
@ Ian
I think it's completely reasonable for someone who used to love the show to voice their opinion on why they didn't like last night's episode (or that they are losing interest in the show in general). This is much different than someone coming on here that never liked it, talking about how it always sucked, being a "hater" etc.
It seems from your comments that you only tolerate favorable reviews.
I, for one, was also disappointed by last night's episode, if that's okay with you....
oh, njroen, i see you posted something along the same lines while I was typing mine...
Check out my take on "316" - I'm Heart this site!
http://tararocksblogs.blogspot.com/2009/02/lost-my-mind.html
@ The Hound of Love...
Word, glad to see someone else speaking "up" to the comment dictator in here. That stuff is completely unwelcome here IAN. Get some gel insoles.
I really liked the episode.
So far I would say This Place is Death was my #1, 316 #2, and Jughead #3.
great recap, thanks Vozzek.
I am still wondering why no one has mentioned the fact that Kate is supposed to be on probation and not allowed to leave the state, let alone the country - for 10 years?!?
First, that was an amazing commentary and I agree (and hope Kate isn't pregnant and she ends up with Sawyer).
Second, I'm sorry some of you were disappointed by the episode -- genuinely -- because it was such an amazing experience for me.
Third, Ben was reading "Ulysses" by James Joyce.
Sorry, I don't see how Ian should be banned. He's just voicing his opinion. I just read back through his comments and didn't find anything offensive. The worst thing he said was that if you don't like the show, then don't watch it. He's entitled to that opinion, isn't he?
I don't think your probation is something that shows up when they run your passport at the airport. It'll only come in to play when she doesn't make her appointment with her probation officer. Probably a non-issue.
Great Review!!
A thought... if they are trying to re-create the original oceanic flight, the clothes (which I assume had to be the same, b/c why would you wear a suit and tie to the island again), the arrested one, sun playing with her ring (rose), Kate being pregnant (theory of mine for Claire), and so on. Why would they not try and get WALT on the plane!!! HMMMM... almost like we are supposed to somewhat forget about him, and then it turns out that he would be needed. Now I know what you are thinking Jack, Kate, Sun, and Hurley may not have know about Michael being on the boat and alive. Sayid and Ben knew... and WALT was on the plane when it went down to begin with. Maybe the writers placed him in the back of the plane (with the actual people going to Guam) and he will show up later.
2nd thought... the O6 saw the flash and went through time like the rest of their crew has been going through. I think that the actual plane crashed on the island in "real time"... this may explain why the water bottle was there from the plane.
3rd thought...(on a different lost thought) I need something confirmed...
When Juliet was "branded" wasn't the one who did the "branding" the one and only Eloise Hawkins!!! (Help it is driving me nuts!!!)
I dont think Ben went to see Desmond at the dock, cause Desmond boat wasnt there, how long does it takes to a boat to travel from UK to LA, and even tought He couldnt have anchored the boat at that side of North America
"3rd thought...(on a different lost thought) I need something confirmed...
When Juliet was "branded" wasn't the one who did the "branding" the one and only Eloise Hawkins!!! (Help it is driving me nuts!!!)"
Somewhat similar looking, but it was Isabel, whom Ben referred to as the sheriff. We haven't seen her since.
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Isabel
Excellent analysis. Apparently the only thing you do is watch and re-watch all LOST episodes in order to come out with those awesome ideas. :P
You're awesome!
speaking of walt,
where is he, and why has all interest in him died down? earlier on in the series we were really made to believe walt was special. now he's sitting in his grandmother's house.
i really hope walt's absense has more to do with the actor's real life commitments, as opposed to the writers just kind of forgetting about him.
also, does ben even know about desmond's relationship with penny?
I didn't read all the comments, so i'm not sure if anyone already said this. so, i'll just say it. was anyone else totally just waiting for one of the crew to just get smacked with that giant ass pendulum? I was actually a little disappointed when it didn't happen. lol.
Oh, that was the other thing I meant to comment on! I agree, about Desmond flying to LA. Not only the time, but I don't think he would take Penny near there... but, we're supposed to think that's what Ben was doing (I know I was!).
In the off chance that that's totally wrong, I still don't think Penny is dead. More likely that Des got to him first.
The woman handcuffed to Sayid looks familiar. Have we seen her on the show before? I can't seem to place her. It also seems like we're seeing two different Ben's. Evil twin perhaps.
"lift up" was also written on eko's Jesus stick.
"Sorry, I don't see how Ian should be banned. He's just voicing his opinion. I just read back through his comments and didn't find anything offensive. The worst thing he said was that if you don't like the show, then don't watch it. He's entitled to that opinion, isn't he?"
Yes, exactly! If people are free to express the opinion that this episode wasn't good, then Ian certainly is free to express the opinion that people who think that this episode wasn't good are wrong (I agree with him). It's more than a bit ironic that the people calling Ian the "comment police" are the ones asking for him to be banned for expressing an opinion that disagrees with theirs. Hmm, who are the real comment police?
"was anyone else totally just waiting for one of the crew to just get smacked with that giant ass pendulum?"
Heh, I was thinking the exact same thing. Desmond crossed the path of the pendulum several times while getting upset. I was waiting for it to nail him.
Flight 815 and flight 316 were two different sized airplanes. So how could the plane shown to be at the bottom of the ocean really be 316 with Frank looking at himself?
Ian said..."Uh....they're the same thing. Ulysses is the Latin name, Odysseus is Greek."
Not really the same. Yes, Ulysses is the Latinized form of Odysseus but Ulysses is by James Joyce. The title does allude to Odysseus though. I find it interesting that Odysseus' wife was Penelope. Interesting book choice for Ben if he just got back from a smack down with Desmond.
@ Ian and Hatebox:
The book Ben was reading is "Ulysses" by James Joyce, widely regarded by many scholars as the greatest English-language novel ever written.
Also, while you were almost right about Odysseus (Greek) and Ulysses (Latin) refering to the same mythic figure, there is no book called "Odysseus". The book you are trying to refer to is Homer's "The Odyssey". Another pretty major work.
What are they teaching in shcools these days??
"What are they teaching in shcools these days??"
The book Ben was reading is Ulysses by James Joyce, a confounding masterpiece of modernist literature noted for its experimental style. It's an allegory for the ancient Greek tale The Odyssey. It's sort of like the original Lost in its dense, overlapping allusions. Never finished it myself, but many people consider it one of the greatest novels ever written.
The book Ben was reading is Ulysses by James Joyce, a confounding masterpiece of modernist literature noted for its experimental style. It's an allegory for the ancient Greek tale The Odyssey. It's sort of like the original Lost in its dense, overlapping allusions. Never finished it myself, but many people consider it one of the greatest novels ever written.
I thought "316" is the best episode in this season so far.
So bored with the island scenes filled in with pointless time travel plots.
If you can't change things in the past, whatever happened just happened, why do we need to watch them in the first place?
Actually I like the idea, but the first four episodes actually serve no purpose just to give some "WOW" moments. Personally, I love "This Place is Death" and "316" and hope the rest of the season would be just on par with these 2.
Flashbacks are the soul of LOST and they are welcome to be back.
Where does Aaron go? What does Jeremy Bentham (Locke) tell O6 and Walt?
Why is Ben so bloody? (let's pray for Penny's safety) and I would love to see Charlie/ Claire's visits to O6.
The plane in the trench is 815 not 316
Ben is not Aaron
You seem to have lost the facts of the show:) This is the problem with lost--there are so many clues and events that its hard to remember them all and form a coherent theory.
I wrote a post on Fuselage 2 years ago about 815 being real. I also said Frank was looking at himself the day he was introduced on Lost
http://johnburgerlost.blogspot.com/
Frank will eventually fly 815 into the Trench because none of them are suppose to be alive. I believe thats Lost in a nutsheel--It explains why they cant stay in the real world. And most importantly Christian and Locke clearly show what is really dead is NOT dead on the Island. They are all dead.--but obviously there is more.
But I think your spinning out of control without thinking things through. We saw Oceanic 815 in the Trench--not the smaller 316.
We saw Ben being born and Goodspeed present at the birth. The only possibility would be the baby was switched but that IMO would be a huge shark jump--although I like the idea
Oh..I forgot to give praise too
I totally agree on the objects faith part. It would stupid if there was a scientific reason to recreate the circumstances of 815. Because thats lunacy--as Jack said to Hawkings
Also, good point on the "I wish" note. I though the very same thing.
About Bens blood. The writer like to present the obvious only to reveal it was nothing of the sort. It actually may be that it had nothing to do with Desmond but was a murder intended to frame Sayid. But if Pen is dead that would the most horrible act on the show.
Voz, always love to read your reviews. The main think I must disagree with is Kate's motivation for losing Aaron. Widmore, most likely, took him and his going to keep him unless Kate does what he says. She's become the new Michael and will betray in order to save her son. She is obviously devastated and in NO WAY would have changed her mind that quickly about going back and leaving him behind. This is supported even more so by her comment to Jack about them being on the same plane but "not together." Her being with Jack seemed to be her good-bye to him. Also, why would she be so adamant about Jack not asking her what happened with Aaron?
Anyone else remember Ben telling Locke that whoever turns the donkey wheel can't come back to the island? If so, why would he willingly risk it by taking the airplane with the O6? Or was it just another lie to get Locke to do his bidding?
I agree that Frank needs to go back to his Kenny Rogers look. Also, the leap of faith thing sort of throws me as I think our producers are generally good about doing their homework. Still, Charlie, Eko and Des have Catholic roots. Eloise Hawking is either at a Catholic or Anglican Church. Catholicism going all the way back to the 2nd Century in rebuking Tertulian for asking, "What does Athens have to do with Jerusalem?" has promoted the idea that God is approachable through faith and reason. Albert the Great, Thomas Aquinas, Teilhard de Chardin and many many others have tried to come to understanding by integrating faith and reason. Reaching out to the best philosophy and science available is not a faith alone sort of thing to do right? Yet, if we just take Aquinas he reached out to a dead Pagan philospher in Aristotle, and dialogued with M. Maimonides (Jewish philosopher) and Averros (Islamic philosopher). Now can you imagine Billy Graham reaching out to ancient pagan thought and drawing upon Jewish and Islamic contemporaries of his? No, because there is a different trajectory of Christianity that makes an appeal to faith alone, grace alone ... Martin Luther's approach to the faith and reason question seems much more in line with what Lost is presenting. So why not set some of these "faith" settings in places that are more faith > reason as opposed to using Catholic or Anglican (in Hawking case) settings? Anglicans probably have an even stronger sense of faith and reason being cooperative and complimentary than do Catholics. Maybe if Lost is going for a synthesis of the two I can get the imagery, but it seems like Lost is promoting a Kierkegaard leap of faith approach to the question yet is using faith traditions whose leaders would likely say Jack would have every right and duty to run these choices and the Island experience through the gauntlet of reasoning. It just seems sloppy on the part of a show that is trying to make commentaries on different philosophical and theological ideas and figures.
has anybody mentioned about what Ben was reading on the plane?
He was reading ulysses.. The name's meaning translates to "The hated one"!!
Got me thinking that one, hated by the island perhaps?
@hound of Love
You read this too? hows it going?
Medusa Spider
Could John Locke have a Medusa Spider stashed in his Coffin? this would make Nikky and Paulo's Expose more worth while.
all he has to do is convince the O6 and any one else that he is dead. this is also why its important that he is on the plane?
i guess we will find out next week.
"It seems from your comments that you only tolerate favorable reviews.
I, for one, was also disappointed by last night's episode, if that's okay with you...."
If you read it, I was responding to someone who said they no longer like the show. That's what they said. I don't care if someone is less than thrilled with an episode. But they said they didn't like Lost anymore, and I said "then don't watch it". If you want me banned for expressing an opinion about that, then so be it. I'll live...
"Word, glad to see someone else speaking "up" to the comment dictator in here. That stuff is completely unwelcome here IAN. Get some gel insoles."
Comment dictator? Such drama. Someone said "I used to like the show. Until now." I said watch something else Wednesday nights at 9. How is that a comment dictator? If you don't like a show, then don't watch it anymore. DId I tell them they're not welcome here? No, I didn't. Did I tell them only positive reactions to an episode are welcome here? No, I didn't. Did I ask them to be banned? No, I didn't. So who is the comment dictator? I would say the person that told me my comment isn't welcome here is trying much harder to be the dictator than I ever could. Gel insoles? Do you think I'm angry or unrelaxed? LOL, I couldn't possibly get that upset in a Lost comment thread.
How about this….the flight they are on now is 316….Locke’s first name is John….
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
If you don’t believe…you get a bloody nose and die!!
"If you don’t believe…you get a bloody nose and die!!"
Or if you don't believe, you don't survive the crash of flight 316.
It's a good bet last night was Jack's last time on Kate's playground, and once they return to the island she's going to realize that her true happy ending most likely involves Sawyer.
I will never stop loving you for telling this. You rock!
JEB said...
Could John Locke have a Medusa Spider stashed in his Coffin?
I totally forgot about that nice spider. That would make sense and would give a sense to Barbie and Ken existence. Interesting!
Is it noone here interested in things as:
-Kate awaked in the pool, twice but she didn't said the same things.. the first time she called "Jack" but the second time she didn't.
- The strange way Kate appeared in Jack's sofa
-The 316 Ajira crash never happen...just a flash and "hop" were are in the jungle again
-Even how the pilot appeared and dissapeared in a second...
All thhese things don't make you think in a nightmare?
Along the show we saw Jack opening his eyes again and again and the story had a change...you have to see "Abre los ojos" an Amenabar movie and you could understand what is what I want to say? He, s dead but is connected to a virtual reality but now the program is wrong and he is suffering nighmares instead of a good dreams...and he is mixing his real memories with the virtual reality...he's worried about the tennis shoes he put his father besides the shoes he musted and I think he did something wrong with his real wife and probably his own son...nothing good
Lots of great theories by Vozz & commenters!
I love Lapidus, and his line to Jack, too. I turned to dh & said, "I liked him better alcoholic & bearded!"?
But he doesn't turn the plane around b/c he knows it's his destiny to go to the island. He has always felt guilty for not being the one to pilot 815 in the first place.
I think Kate belongs w/ Jack, not Sawyer. And wasn't she referring to the others on the plane, like Ben, when she said they weren't necessarily "together" w those on the flight"?
Des' speed - do we know the timeframe of his meeting w/ Widmore"? Could it have been weeks before Locke's death"?
Dan, you're right - Catholicism is very much faith & reason as complementary, never conflicting. Locke's view of faith alone & Jack's view of reason alone are both antithetical to this.
Hypothesis in response to the final paragraph:
Charlie is the musician that programs the communications jammer in the Looking Glass. Pre-cognitive memory or something allowed him to know the tones of the pad and pound out the tune so perfectly the first time.
What do we think?
What about the Purge?? will young Ben kill his older self? Will the O6 die on the purge??
I thought this was the best episode ever.. I too though Jack was gonna run to the beach and see the crash..
I think the promise Ben made was to Locke.. we see in the promo for next week he is kneeling as Locke hangs himself. Maybe he had to prove himself to John and in turn John lets him come back. (the story about thomas following Jesus.. maybe Ben is saying he is Thomas)
I think Claire took Aaron. Kate saw her again. Everyone who decideds to go back to the island is visited by someone from the island or someone who is dead. So maybe the reason why she tells jack not to ask her again because Claire taking Aaron would sound MAD crazy!!
I do think Kate and Jack are Adam and eve.. even though I hate them together.. I think there is more to that " I have always been with you" comment.
I did find it interesting that desmond didn't even flinch when crossing in front of the pendulum.. I would have been dodging and weaving like I was playing double dutch.
I think that The o6 were sucked out.. Oh and this proves that even the air space above the island is moving. I don't think the island is moving from day to day, but what Ms. hawkign meant is that every 180, 360, or certain amount of days the island is in a new place.
I also think that the island is the location of the garden of eden.. but you can see my post in the theories section.
OH and BTW Penny isn't in LA I don't think she is dead.
I completely agree, it takes a while to realise what youre thinking and even longer to find the courage to say it aloud but here it is:
My name is Kayley and I believe season 5 is better than season 1.
My name is Debbie and I too believe Season 5 is better than Season 1 (thus far) ;)
pretty darn good
to the question of why hurley showed up i have three thoughts. One could be a mix if ghosts visiting him, Charlie (obvious), Libby, and/or anna lucia. Second a possible note/message/ or event set up and planted, hidden to this point by Locke. i mean Jack had his note, who is to say there werent others for the rest. Third, and less talked about, Walt. He is off the island, and still a huge question mark. he obviously has a huge gift and is going to appear in more episodes comming up. his role has to be a lot bigger than we knoe right now. that is all.
@ IAN said...
""I agree with you dude. That episode was very rushed, like they didn't have time to give us details and fit everything in, I hope that is the only episode like that the rest of the way."
These comments are getting irritating. Since when have they EVER given us all of the details at once? Try never. That's what the flashbacks were for, and that's what they'll be for again. If you're hoping that it's the only episode the rest of the way that doesn't give you every detail and every answer for the things you're seeing, then you will be sorely disappointed. Frankly, I don't what show you've been watching up til now. Stick to Two and a Half Men. They'll give you all the details, I'm sure..."
-----------------------------------
You didn't understand what a wrote. The point I was making was that they tried to cram 90 minutes of story into 45 minutes of air time, and things seemed choppy. I'm well aware that we don't get all the answers all the time, that is why I consider this the best television show ever aired. To say "I don't know what show you've been watching" is condescending.
If I disagree with someone on here about an idea of the show I don't insult them.
@crazyfish
I was going to write it but you were quicker!
Considering the issue of Ben's "Mom"... I think it's very plausible that when Ben joined Others there was a woman who became his segregate Mother. Maybe SHE taught him to read, and maybe that is the woman in the picture in his living room? Also considering the comment from Harper to Juliette, "You look just like her".
Then there is always the time travel theory that he went back to when his mother was alive and had her teach him how to read. Do we know what her profession was while she was alive?
@ IAN,
If the comments are getting 'irritating' then using your own logic, you shouldn't read them.
@ Ian
Since I'm the one you sorta flamed after reading my post, I think I get to say hey, yeah, your reaction seemed a little harsh to me. It did sound like if I dare to disagree that "316" was a great episode, then you think I should quit watching and quit posting. That would be pretty pointless, if all we did was read and post how wonderful everything about LOST is, every detail, all the time. Even Vozzek points out flaws now and then.
Everyone IS entitled to their opinion, and ideally, no one should be attacked for posting their ideas. I never said I hated the show, nor did I say I wasn't watching it any more. Far from it. If that were true, I wouldn't have eagerly read Vozzek's always wonderful episode review, nor would I have posted my thoughts.
As for those who attacked you, I would say, you shouldn't be banned. Posters SHOULD however feel free to challenge ideas while not casting aspersions on the writer.
@sawyerrules
The reason the scenes and dialogue "seemed" different between the opening scene and the closing scene of the episode, is because at the end, they are shortening it, knowing that we have already seen the full scene, so they cut out bits and pieces to get us more quickly to the moment of them seeing Jin. Nothing "changed" at all.
Kate was on Jack's bed, not sofa - and OF COURSE we are interested in why she was there in that fashion. Who ISN'T?
There is no evidence to either prove or disprove the idea of Ajira Flight 316 crashing on the Island. And this was done on purpose.
So no, I highly, highly doubt that the "back on the island" sequence at the beginning and end of the episode was a nightmare. Also, Damon and Carlton, I belive, would never write something as important as that scene, as a dream. (Referring to their comment about the "end of lost" NOT being a cop out like a dream or something).
@njroen
"Now on to, WHO took the picture of “US ARMY OP 264”. If you look at the dates…
PHOTO TAKEN: 9/23/54
815 Crashes: 9/22/04
http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/wp-content/gallery/5x06-easter-eggs/photo.jpg
There is something to that."
I agree, and I think it could have been Eloise Hawking herself. She has a) been on the Island, b) come into contact with US military in 1954 while she was ON Island, and c) if now off-Island, leaving the possibility she took that picture from someone in the US military that they captured/killed in 1954.
I wish LOST were on every week forever...but '316' felt contrived and yes, paint-by-numbers silly ... eg. EVEN Fionulla Flannagan seemed to have a problem delivering her lines in a way that matched the gravitas and mystery of her surroundings. She came across like a grade school teacher force-feeding unwanted information to a bunch of bored pupils. There were some brilliant flashes that were true-to-form LOST, like Hurley buying all the seats on the plane, but I missed those 'gotcha' twists...heck, even Locke's suicide note was anticlimactic and predictable.
Does anyone think that Sayid's marshall looked like Harper?
Also, what if Ben DID try to kill Penny, but couldn't because of her special 'other'ness. OR, if Widmore set up the whole thing so that Des would be forced to bring Penny to the Island to bring her back to life. (It seems odd that Widmore gave Des the info he wanted so readily, ESPECIALLY when he knew what Ben was up to.
spot on with the jack and kate relationship even through im a jater i think kate should be with sawyer, and jack being my faverate character i don't like the way kate used him it was the way she used sawyer when she was jealous of jack juliet i don't really like kate i just like her because of the jate thing, but after watching the conversation on the plane with jack and sawyer watching her help clare give birth i think thoses two should really be with each orther.
Brad, I'm not saying that just the opening scene is a nighmare, its more that aaaallll Lost is a succession of nightmares mixed with memories of his real life. He sang a contract (a company maybe with Dharma or Mittelos?) in with he wants to extent his life after death living connected to a program, virtual life on a paradise...but this program failed and....we have Jack awaking on the island again and again (first time on the crash, then on the cage in the Hydra station, on the barracks, on the tent when he was ill (pay attention to the repeated scene of Juliet trying to wake him up, a dejavou?)...now on the beach twice on the same episode but with different results...With this, all things in Lost have a logic explanation, its easy, into a dream all have sense or not :)
The rest of the people could be just characters created for him or some of them could be people like him connected to the same program. And Locke maybe is like and Antivirus sistem, he's trying to stabilize the situation all the time.
What annoys me the most is the fact that losties never ask anything when odd things happen. Example: Nobody asks Ben what the hell happened to him when he appears in the plane hurt like hell. He seems to have been run over by a train. Nobody says a word about this little detail....
sawyerrules, i see where you were going with that now. sorry for the misunderstanding. for what it's worth, though, I personally do not want that particular situation to be the case on Lost. But the writers are going to write the show they want, not the show we want.
But Locke = Antivirus! I lol because it's so true
One of the best Vozzek69's recaps to one of the best episodes.
I like to dream yes, yes, right between my sound machine
On a cloud of sound I drift in the night
Any place it goes is right
Goes far, flies near, to the stars away from here
Well, you don't know what we can find
Why don't you come with me little girl
On a magic carpet ride
You don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free
Close your eyes girl
Look inside girl
Let the sound take you away
Last night I held Aladdin's lamp
And so I wished that I could stay
Before the thing could answer me
Well, someone came and took the lamp away
I looked around, a lousy candle's all I found
Well, you don't know what we can find
Why don't you come with me little girl
On a magic carpet ride
Well, you don't know what we can see
Why don't you tell your dreams to me
Fantasy will set you free
Close your eyes girl
Look inside girl
Let the sound take you away
-Magic Carpet Ride, by Steppenwolf
Jack and Kate are real lovers on their dreams.
To Brad (and everyone who wants to) if you have the time to do it, you may watch "Abre los ojos" an Amenabar's movie (1997) and you could understand better ...
Jack is dead.
@sawyerrules
I saw Abre los Ojos as well as Vanilla Sky, and fully understand the theory you're trying to express. But i really think that's not it.
The writers clearly stated that there was nothing "virtual" or "dreamy" related to the big mysteries of the show. They're not dead, nor are they dreaming what was happening before or what is happening now.
On a side note, what I really wonder now is "what about ben ?" he stated before that the one moving the island can't go back... so :
#1 - he was lying to get Locke to stay -> why ?
#2 - he meant "can't go back" meaning "is not allowed to... because it can have big consequences" and not "is not able to, technically".
I think he never meant "will not be able to go back". Because then he wouldn't even try, or Hawking (who knows at least as much as him about the island) would have told him something about the fact that he wouldn't be able to go back.
So i'm guessing the fact that he actually came back after moving it will have some consequences...
Let's wait and see.
Vozzek,
Another thing: What's your take on Cindy? Was she trying to return to the island on the original flight 815??
Daniel, I don't want to say that TPTB are lyers cause I respect them so much but Lost has a lot of similarities with "Abre los ojos" and the way the episodes are now developing doesn't say I'm wrong, but I could be wrong.
If I'm right TPTB are geniouses causes they managed to hide the real matter of the show about 100 episodes and Amenabar only 117 minutes
I think that Locke is the antivirus and...Ben could be the virus, why not?
genius
The plane in the SUndra Trench CANNOT be 316. On top of the facts that the planes are different sizes and we saw the Oceanic logo on the "fake crash site"... ALL of the passengers were accounted for. 316 had what, twelve people total?
1. Jack
2. Kate
3. Hurley
4. Sun
5. Ben
6. Sayid
7. Cop
8. Ceasar
9. John
10. Flight attendant
11. Frank
12. Co-pilot
Significantly less than in 815, even if there were a few people that somehow sat in the middle of the plane even though Hurley bought all the tickets.
Also, I think that Ben turned the Donkey wheel simply as a means of escape. Even if Keamy was dead, he figured that there would be more people coming to get him. And of course, as far as he was aware, in order to kill Charles' daughter, he had to be back in the real world.
@ Brad - If you're right about Eloise I would think it would have to be a stolen photo from one of the dead US Military.
@ Sawyerules, Daniel, Brad... Concerning the "Abre los ojos" & Jack is dead conversation. Yes the writers have clearly stated that the events on the show are not a dream, everyone is not dead. BUT, they also said in the past that timetravel was not happening on the show. We clearly see now that, that was a bold face lie. Unless they're hiding behind semantics to defend them, i.e = temporal shifts ARE NOT time travel.
I think precrash Christian Sheppard's role is going to end up being very important. I think he was chums with either Ben, Widmore, Mittelos or Jacob at some point in time. Maybe he was even told by one of those three or Claire's Aussie Psychic that he (Christian) had to die in Australia to save Jack's life, and thus killed himself through alcohol. Much like Locke was told he had to die to save those people still on the island.
njroen, I'm agree with you in "Yes the writers have clearly stated that the events on the show are not a dream, everyone is not dead." cause it's not exactly a dream. it's an induced vision (virtual life) and everyone is not dead, I said that Jack is dead no everyone.
So...everything is relative, TPTB weren't exactly lying when they said that.
@ sawyerules,
So with your Jack is dead idea, how does the big idea of the "Underworld" fit into all of this? I'm open to hearing more on this idea, but will need you give me some instances on the show that back this up. And maybe a deeper explanation of it. Thanks
Actually Sawyerrules, the fact is not so much that I think you're wrong, but I want you to be wrong.
Nothing against you, but if you were right, that would make for a very disappointing ending to the show. It works for Abre los Ojos and Vanilla Sky because the whole movie revolves around this premise, and it only lasts 120 minutes (as you said).
Here, it would just obliterate about 90% of what happened during the show's run. Which would be cheap on the part of the writers (and I must say, an easy way out).
If the writers know what they are doing (and i believe they are), nobody should be able to figure out the whole thing before the end. Because they plan it that way, giving us only what they want to give us.
I think the main motivations of the "brains" behind what's happening (Widmore, Ben, etc.) will be revealed progressively until the very last episode. But as for the WHOLE mythology and for the big picture, there is never going to be a "conclusion" that can be written in one sentence (like your proposition or an "alternate reality").
You'll have to look at it globally to see the big picture, with multiple elements from each episodes.
At least, that's what i hope.
Besides, the whole "Ben is a virus and Locke is an antivirus" doesn't fit at all with the writing of the show.
Locke motivations are clearly independant of Jack or the other survivors. He works for the Island itself, because he has faith in it from the very beginning (hey... it gave him back his legs...).
We also see Ben's life and history way before the 815's are on the Island.
Add to that, the whole "I need to get the Island back" trip by Widmore wouldn't fit in your theory.
Basically, if your theory were true, (i repeat myself but...) it would negate almost 90% of what the writers hid for 3 seasons and slowly unfolded since season 4... Which would be a gigantic waste of time in my opinion.
I hope i'm not sounding too harsh or anything, i don't mean too. I'm just not convinced. :)
(English is not my first language, so forgive me if my words are poorly chosen and sound too agressive)
Could it be possible that Charlotte had to die because all the rest of them appear to now be in the 70's and wasn't Charlotte born there during that time? So now Daniel, who is in the 70's meets a woman and has a baby with her. Could the baby be Charlotte.So she had to die or meet herself. He did say he loved her, but maybe as a father loves a daughter. Maybe Miles has to die too because he was possibly born there. The rest of the losties weren't, they just got sent back in time so no chance of meeting themselves, which could cause some problems. Much like the results of Ben going back. I think he's going to have to avoid himself as a boy. If Widmore has been there before maybe Penny was born there too and that's why Ben's willing to take the chance and go back just to kill her as a child. Of course I know that babies can't be conceived and born on the island but maybe they weren't conceived there just born there because that's the only way they could do it.
Frank Einstein, dude... Think about it. Did Sawyer and Locke die when they were in the time of the night Boone died and Aaron was born? NO. Also Juliet would have been on-island at that time, and she didn't cark it either.
Am I missing something more from the "You've got to lift it up?". This is exactly what you do when you sprain your ankle. You have to lift it up to make it harder for blood to travel up the leg to prevent further swelling.