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What did you think of Episode 9 - The Shape of Things to Come
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115 Comments:
OMG Smokie!
All I have to say is... wow.
I'll say it again: Wow.
stunning, just stunning.
WOW! GREAT EPISODE! SMOKIE WAS BACK AND BETTER THAN EVER!
Two Words:
Benjamin Linus is FREAKING AWESOME!!
wait, that's more than two- I could just watch him for three more seasons
this was the best episode of LOST i may have ever seen in my life... better than The Constant! this episode was sooooo amazing i cant even begin to comprehend how amazing it was!
I'm... speechless.
Ben can command the smoke monster from a room in his house... wow.
Holy...Freaking...Crap!!!!!
Maybe the best episode ever!
This episode was incredible! Tied with The Constant for best episode this season.
It had everything! The action was incredible, reminding me of the good old days when there were new episodes of 24. And wasn't Ben so very Jack Baur! Sawyer too!
Ben's scene with Alex was incredibly touching. Imagine Ben showing real vulnerable emotion!
This season just keeps getting better! Can't wait for next week:)
Holy Molley
If you Dont like that one I hope Ben Sicks the Smokemonster on you
It just amazes Me
I mean seriously
that has got to be the best episode ever
BEST EPISODE EVER!!!!!!!
I am in awe! How BIG is Smokey!?! I'm sad (Alex) I'm scared (who else is gonna die?) I'm excited (James Bond got nuthin' on Linus...Benjamin Linus)! To quote my favorite show: "I'm gonna have to watch that again!"
I'm so sad that Alex is gone. So glad that Sawyer is opening himself up and caring about people. Is Bernard awesome or what?
INCREDIBLE!
That scene with Smokey was by far the best we've ever seen him in.
Keamy? TOTAL BADASS. I'm hoping he sticks around a little longer because Ben has started to get a soft side.
He killed Alex! Without even thinking about it! That scene with Ben saying goodbye while the sounds of smokey could be heard in the background was touching.
And finally, that last scene. It was subtle, but revealed SO MUCH to us.
* Widmore and Ben have some sort of "rules"
* Ben and Widmore can't kill each other
* Everything Ben has was "taken" from Widmore
* And Ben and Widmore have somehow lost the island and are now in a race to find it. Hmm... do I smell the season 5 plotline?
Yeah, when Smokie came out I thought that was pretty cool. I'm really curious as to what Jacob has to say (or what his deal is even)...
Question: How did Ben land in the middle of the desert? Did I miss something?
If he can control Smokey, does that mean he had Eko killed or did Smokey do it on his own? And what did he mean when he said Widmore "changed the rules?" More fuel for the time travel fire. Perhaps both of them have done this before? Why couldn't Widmore find the island? I thought the boat people had already found it... so something must be up with that. But those last five minutes or so... Ben vs. Widmore... one of the best scenes in Lost history.
I cannot wait to see Cabin Fever.
Oh man I was yelling and laughing at my TV when Ben sicced Smokie on them. That was SO good!
I cried during the execution scene.. To think that's the last thing Alex ever heard. "She's not my daughter, I kidnapped her from some crazy lady, I don't care about her she's just a pawn, go ahead and kill her" Sigh.
And then that frozen, paralyzed expression on Ben's face.. God. x_x
Incredible episode but i do have a question. Not how did ben summon the monster, not what is up with faraday, not why did that douche bag kill alex, but:
When did sawyer change from a selfish, nickname calling, short tempered, obnoxious (not to mention awesome man) to a compassionate, selfless, overprotective, sweetheart calling leader?
Smokey seemed really really angry. So Ben controls it or can he just summon it?
"Hey Cerberus here boy c'mon. You want some bad people? Yes you do, oh yes you do. C'mon boy kill kill kill."
This episode was better than The Constant.
Ben wants to kill Penny...
-Desmonds gonna be pissed....
I wish we had seen more of Smokey, but that's probably cuz the whole time we did see him was so incredibly cool.
F'ing amazing. Best episode since the constant.
Great Episode, but not as good as the Constant
My new top 5 best episode candidate! Darlton aren't stringing us along anymore. I just hope next week isnt a let down after this one...
My theory:
Ben is somehow traveling through the Orchid Station.
That's why the FlasH started with crashing on the ground not knowing the year.
Jack that's a good question. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps the Temple/Orchid isn't some kind of teleportation station. It might explain why he got sick when he woke up. Did anyone get a good look at what Dharma symbol was on his jacket?
Holy crap. This episode was more condensed than a can of Campbell's Soup...and it was awesome.
I normally don't leave comments, but I think this episode absolutely called for it.
Wow.
Benjamin Freaking Linus rules. That much is for sure.
Loved the shot of his "arrival" in Tunisia.
Not as moving as "The Constant" but it certainly kicked start the latter part of the season with a bang.
And Ben and Widmore have somehow lost the island and are now in a race to find it. Hmm... do I smell the season 5 plotline?
I think its Widmore looking for the island... Ben looking for Penny.
So Ben vs Widmore, there are rules and WIDMORE CHANGED THEM.
Best parts of the ep-
1. Ben hears the message and pulls a FREAKING SHOTGUN out of the piano
2. Just the opening shot of Ben waking up in the desert
3. The goodbye scene with Alex
4. Smokey the worm-thing devouring that guy trying to crawl away
5. Bernard knows morse code! Bernard for life!
Seriously though, the action and raw emotion really set this ep apart- it's like a complete 180 from the Constant, except just as good in its own way
Unbelievable!!! Sawyer superhero and protector. Ben as James Bond. Alex killed (Oh Noooo!). Smoke monster in full terrifying mode. Sayid recruited. And Penny threatened in retaliation for Alex. Action packed. Answers galore. Connections made. Absolutely incredible for me. I’m sure if I think about it, I will see the flaws, but right now, I just savoring it.
Holy frakking shit. That was so incredible. So much amazing stuff packed into one episode. So many questions addressed if not answered... because they morphed into more complex questions. Michael Emerson owns this show. You think you know what's going on in Ben's head and then a subtle change of the setting of his mouth or the width of his eyes and you realize there are about 3 more levels you didn't catch the first time. Smokey was great. Sawyer was great. Sayid--beautiful. Hurley was INCREDIBLE (seriously, Jorge Garcia is so underrated). The look on Jack's face when Daniel finally let him know no rescue was coming... and Bernard's psyche out with the morse code. All amazing. The only complaint I have is that Locke was pretty much a total tool and I really can't defend anything he did except to say that it wasn't his episode. If the writers managed to explain so much about ben's motives, even for things that seemed like throwaways a few episodes ago, I can only hope they are planning the same sort of batting clean up for Locke.
Did anyone else catch Ben asking the Tunisian desk clerk what year it was? Can he slip through time like Desmond? Why can't he find Penny? And... Ho shit, Penny and Desmond just got relevant to the overall story arc!
Wow. This ep kicked the Constant's ass, I think. My head is spinning.
Oh, one more thing:
I sooo detect a battle between Constant fans and Shape of Things to Come fans over the best ep- and that's a problem we LOST fans like to have!
Why did Ben have on a parka with Holliwax's name? Was he supposed to "teleport" to somewhere cold? Is it cold to teleport?
I still can't figure out why Widmore would kill Nadia. I mean fine kill everyone on the island sure, after what Ben did to the Dharma Initiative I can at least understand not showing him any mercy. But why go after the 6?
G-Man said... Benjamin Freaking Linus rules. That much is for sure.
==========
jacress22: Benjamin Linus is FREAKING AWESOME!! wait, that's more than two- I could just watch him for three more seasons
============
Pretty much sums it up. Michael Emerson and Ben are so darned cool.
We see him being a leader, we see him being compassionate, we see him kill, and we even see him CRY.
For the Locke haters: I don't really think it's that Locke is clueless (he is) but it's more that Ben just shows him up. Ben knows what's going on. Locke does not and heck, could not know what's going on.
Though, it goes further than that. Ben is the quinessential leader. He's darned good at it.
i see people asking what Ben meant when he says Widmore changed the rules... i thought it was obvious.. he changed the rules when he killed an innocent person... surprised some of you didnt get that...
also... i dont think Ben is in FULL control of smokie... it wouldnt make sense because remember when Juliet and Kate were about to be attacked by it? why would Ben send it to attack Juliet when he sent her to go with Kate to infiltrate the Losties camp?
i want to know what IDIOT'S are voting that this episode was "OK" or "Poor"... obviously just people being jackasses and trying to be funny... clearly they're just idiots tho...
Right, Locke is by necessity clueless at the moment. But man, even Hurley is leading him by the nose--Hurley is the one who broke the window to let Sawyer in, and then Locke was all like...hey, good idea, I'll help. I guess I just kinda think he could have persuaded Hurley to come on the cabin-finding mission without pulling a gun on Sawyer. Not hot on the idea of those two being in opposite camps. And also, as awesome as Ben is... he still shot John and left him for dead. Locke follows him like a dog because he think's Ben's gonna tell him why he's so special... it's just gettin' old. Hopefully this'll be addressed in Cabin Fever.
Definitely one of the top 5 episodes ever! Do you guys hate the commercials as much as I do?
..not to detract from this ep though. Damn. That was some good Lost.
Yeah...There were more commercials than normal. I taped the ep w/commercials left off and it only came to around 38 minutes. RIP-OFF!!!!! It's normally closer to 44 min. What up w/that?
This episode was incredible.
Ben was great.
The look of horror he had when Alex got shot.....damn.
And then how badass he was, summoning smokey like that, which was also insanely awesome.
Then he showed actual emotion, grieving over his daughter. That made me really sad.
At the very end of it, when he and Charles challenged each other, it made me feel like I was watching a movie, and I hated that it was over.
The commercials kept pissing me off. Did it feel to anyone else like it would come on for about 6 minutes, then have 8 minutes of commercials all throughout the episode?
arggg...
This rest of this season is going to be great, and this episode is one of the best of the whole series.
Best episode of Lost I've ever seen.
Benjamin Linus can kiss my ass!!!! He moved up ten times on my hate meter what a piece of shit!!!! Let's his daughter die and now he is going after Penny!!!!!
Charles Widmore > Ben Linus!!!!! O yea I'm a Desmond, Penny, Widmore fan!!!! I can see what's going to happen he is going to send Sayid after Penny the only thing is Sayid knows Penelope so he will not kill her.
O man this episode was great but not as good as the Constant Alex's death hurts it big time. I hate that death really o and it also puts the final nail in the coffin on my fantasy game unbelievable!!! Not that I had a chance to comeback anyways probably!!!
The smoke monster scene though nearly makes up for the Alex death that was amazing. Without a doubt probably a top ten moment in the series. That was too freaking cool!!!!
did anyone else think anything special about hurley's line during RISK... something about "Australia is the answer to the game" or something like that? i really think that's probably a big clue. to what? i have no idea. but something. something awesome.
@monkstro....not really, one cant be sure as the rule could have been no killing of family (or especially dear /family equivalent poeple)
It appears that some think Ben has lost the island. I think Widmore meant that he (Widmore) would be hunting for the island, while Ben is hunting for Penelope. Ben has not lost the island.
The episode was so awesome. But I cannot believe Ben let Alex die. I don't care what rules are in place about not killing innocent, kids, loved ones -whatever - I would never take a chance or trust an enemy with a gun to my child's head. And to think, those are the last words poor Alex heard. Can't forgive Ben this one!
Finally - what was up with that line from Hurley in the beginning
"Australia is the key to the whole game" Hmmmmmmmmmm
Westix,I don't think that Widmore killed Nadia. I think Ben may have done it to manipulate Sayid into joining his mission to destroy Widmore. I wouldn't put it past Ben.
" The episode was so awesome. But I cannot believe Ben let Alex die. I don't care what rules are in place about not killing innocent, kids, loved ones -whatever - I would never take a chance or trust an enemy with a gun to my child's head. And to think, those are the last words poor Alex heard. Can't forgive Ben this one!"
Yep I totally agree with you here!!!!! You can not allow it to even happen!!!! The Captain moves down my list too I was actually liking him guess not!!!
awesome episode. one of the best ever. but what about that thing in ben's hand? what the hell was that? and anybody notice the room ben went into to summon smokey? looked like adam and eve's cave to me. and one last thing, how did ben have a dharma uniform in such good condition if it was 2005? wouldn't it have worn down or something? even the halliwax nametag looked pristine. maybe he was time traveling..
It was a cool episode BUT Ben's pursuit of Penny makes him less sympathetic not more.I like the irony of him denying Alex and then coming to terms with his mistake.Widmore was right ,Ben in some way did kill Alex.
As for Ben controlling Smokey,BORING!That was a very weak reveal that needs some elaboration because Smokey went after Juliet and Kate.Continuity slipup?It would be cooler if Smokey was a free agent.
In addition,this whole clueless Locke situation is getting old as well.But from what I understand that will change a bit following Cabin Fever.Ben acts like the Chosen One,but someone else clearly is or might be..........
The last scene was way cool but Ben going after Penny....I can't wait to see Des open up a can of whupass on Ben!Ben's wish to get Penny officially doesn't make him a good guy anymore(he never was in my eyes anyway).Ben is a liar ,a fraud and he is no James Bond BUT Emerson does a great job conveying all the brilliance,phoniness(do we really know that Jacob really does speak to him anymore?) and strangeness about Ben.Still he so needs to end up in that coffin instead of Micheal in the last episode of Season 4!Now that would be a big time shock!That would make fans go ballistic and I think that the Constant was so much better than this,though this one was great.
am i the only one who thought that when they said they both would be looking it was linus for penny and widmore for the island. ben knows where the island is he dosnet need to find it he needs to find penny
Too many people are confusing the fact that Ben and Widmore are racing to find the island. No no actually Ben knows where the island is and Charles knows where Penny is and they are both racing to see where each is.
Can't believe they killed Alex like that. I hate Keamy more than Paulo.
If Ben can control the smoke monster like that did he also order hits on the pilot and Mr. Eko? Or was that just the monster's own doing.
I am going to have a harder time defending Locke after Sawyer's rant about how crazy him and Ben are and Locke pointing the gun (even though we all know he wouldn't shoot).
Did you people see the name of Ben's jacket? 'Wickmund'. Stealing from the one armed scientist are we. That guy creeps me out too. Why does he keep changing his name in all the orientation films????????
dan: Sawyer's character's been going through an upheaval ever since he killed Cooper. You've seen him getting more and more tender this season; in 4x01, he checked to make sure Hurley was alright while they were walking through the forest, and in subsequent episodes, he tried to play house with kate. There's obviously a dynamic with Sawyer that's going on behind the scenes, and hopefully it will be addressed in a future centric episode.
westix: I don't think Widmore necessarily killed Nadia. I think Ben might have had Nadia killed so that he could recruit Sayid.
mike: That wasn't necessarily a clue. Anyone who plays a lot of Risk knows that getting control of Australia early in the game is the best way to ensure victory, as Australia is easily defended.
On a personal note, am I the only one who doesn't care that Alex died?
Best Lost episode EVER even beats TTLG! I love Ben Linus WOW
Also, kyount004, the name on the jacket was "Halliwax," not "Wickmund." Granted, they are (probably) the same person. I'm more curious about that spiral-shaped Dharma logo.
Just wanted to point out something I was thinking about. A house fell on Claire in this episode. Her feet were sticking out from beneath the rubble, much like the wicked witch of the east. The last episode this year is called "There's No Place Like Home."
Uh oh.
This has now become my favorite WTF episode...my throat is sore from yelling so hard when Smokey came out! W.O.W!!!!!! I'm a HUGE Desmond fan, and the Constant and Flashes Before Your Eyes were my two fave epi's up till tonight. Ben is totally a "good" guy.
Locke might be a tool for now, but it is his daddy issues ruling him...he will get over it eventually, and then Benjamin Linus won't know what hit him.
But if anything i am hoping for a Desmond/Ben showdown over Penelope..Desmond will finally show a backbone.
Carlton - it is so weird how differently fans see things. I hate ben more than ever. He not only let his daughter die, let the last words she heard be her father betraying her, but now he wants to kill Penny. If you really are a Desmond fan, you can't think Ben is a good guy. Oh well, to each his own. But I am with you on one thing....I did love that Smoke monster scene!!
I still am not sure if ben is "good" or not. Overall he is certainly working against widmore but that does not necessarily make him PRO losties. The question now though is if there really is any so called "good" guys or bad guys. It seems like both ben and widmore do some bad things but in the end It seems like ben is Less bad.
morelostthanever said... Carlton - it is so weird how differently fans see things. I hate ben more than ever. He not only let his daughter die, let the last words she heard be her father betraying her, but now he wants to kill Penny.
==========
If he knows that Desmond and Penny are an item, then yes he's really bad. But if he doesn't (which is what I suspect) then he's not. It's just unfortunate.
Also, he said that about Alex as a bargaining chip. He didn't think she'd be killed. Widmore went back on any supposed 'word' he had with Ben. Ben was stunned beyond belief, stuck the smoke monster on them, and then actually CRIED his eyes out.
He cared. He cared deeply.
The final scene reminded me of the conversation between Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty (Professor, not Dean) in "The Final Problem". Awesome episode. Loved Smokey's rumble in the jungle. Ben better not harm a hair on Penny's head, though.
smokie aewsome!!!bens pet monster!!! bernard useful!!!! alex sad.. better hope dannielle is really dead. i think frank is going to save them all. the desk clerk looked scared when she looked up bens reservation. i totally think locke is jacob (dont know how yet). the real ? is WHO IS CHARLES WIDMORE REALLY? IS HE HANSO? IS HE A BIG DHARMA INVESTOR? (submited that question to the forum) he is not just charles widmore tycoon guy, he said ben took the island from him... and i thought this before; i think ben's story of his life (TMBTC) is bull, widmore said i know who you really are. so who is he? wtf happend between his adolecence and the purge? did he work in the orchid? and wtf wrer those symbols on that door?
Ok. What follows is my first "monster" post - it's everything I can think of/recall about episode 4x09. It's past midnight on a Thursday, but I can't sleep and I would love to have a ton of Lost distractions tomorrow so I thought I'd kick this thing off in style.
1. The first scene. To me this was a clear Quantum Leap - Ben seemed disoriented (didn't even realize he'd been injured, p.s. what is it about arms on this show? and in the movie the Jackal?) and my guess is he was coming from somewhere cold and didn't expect to be in the Saharan desert. So is Jacob sending him where he needs to go? Al? Why haven't I leapt yet? The biggest point here, though, was the name on the jacket - Halliwax. Obviously if you watched the Comic-con video, edgar halliwax was the name of dr. marvin candle (the guy from the dharma initiative orientation films) when he worked in the Orchid - a station which seemed to indicate it was possible to travel in time, even creating multiple copies of yourself (which is bad - like crossing the streams bad).
2. That smirk. Ben's look walking away from Sayid.Classic Ben - which reminds me, great line by Sawyer when he called out "Excuse me, James." Strangely awkward Saywer line: don't hurt one hair on his curley head. Ok. Yikes. (Tangents x2 - when Sayid tackled Ben, he said stop following me, then realized it was Ben... so who did he think was following him??? And, that lady looked shocked when she found Dean Moriarity's entry in the hotel book - I'm guessing the last time he had been there was like 100 years ago.) But speaking of Sawyer lines...
3. I'm going to kill you. This threat is overdone. If I were Locke, I'd say this smoke monster just ate six dudes (but apparently not Keamy), but SAWYER's the one who scares me? You know what would have been cool, though, was if Sawyer had added "...just like I killed yo' pappy." Ben would have popped. Could have been awesome... alas, my friends, alas.
4. Bam - right in the kisser! Can't believe they whacked Alex.
5. Anyone see Heat? Best scene by far - Pacino and DeNiro meet for coffee. Now I have a new love. Ben and Charles. What??? As in: The island used to be his? It's 2005 but he still hasn't found it - does anyone survive the freighter? What did Ben do, according to Widmore, to cause the death - was it taking her in the first place? If he doesn't know about the island, maybe he doesn't know about the incident with Keamy. Where is Penny that he thinks BEN won't be able to find her? The guy got traffic photo shots of some random Widmore drone speeding through a red after offing Nadia. Did these two used to be partners? Is Ben good and Widmore bad, the opposite, or somewhere in between? Either way, Des is gonna be pissed. And...
6. WHAT F***ING RULES???
7. P.S. How is the doctor fine??? Is the ISLAND in the future??? Might explain Tall Walt... uh... I guess.
8. Hilarious - "Oh, you aren't planning to ever take us off the island? I'm going to go over here and be sick then. No, seriously, nobody rough up the two frieighter people who are lieing to us. Don't worry about it. Not important. We'll deal with it later. Thanks Bernard. But I'm sure they're cool anyway."
9. I'm not sure Ben called Smokey. It seemed his plan was to bring out the devastation by saying we need to stay away from them, so maybe he did... but he also looked shocked and awed (lame without Sayid around) to see it. Also about the houses, predictable but classic mis-direct (especially if you'd seen the Risk promo photos) on the board game. But Hurley's line, the secret is Australia, and Sawyer mentioning Siberia (Ben's winter coat? Penny's Portuguese dudes?) might have not been coincidental, either. I harken back here to my overarching theory that this is a global (and time/space-spanning) war and the island is just one battlefield. Oh and while we're at it, why the hell can't Ben kill Widmore, or vice versa? What would happen?
10. So now we have four groups - the Three Muskateers (Hurley is one of the Oceanic 6), the beach camp(Jack, Sun, Kate), a few peeps on the boat (Sayid) and the Locke defectors (Aaron). At least one person from each group gets off the island. Wha....???
Ok, that's the best I got. Have at it. Looking forward to this one.
Best ep of the season in my opinion. Not the best of the whole series but definitely way up there. The final scene with Ben vs. Widmore was very well written and it put the entire episode in context as well as setting up what seems to be the primary conflict of the series. 5/5 for sure.
That was one damn good episode. I'm putting it right up there with "Through the Looking Glass", and I didn't know if anything, for me, would come close to that episode. I can't wait for next week, I hope nothing happens to Claire.
Keamy may be an asshole, but he's pretty badass as well. Point blank, right in the head with no remorse, WOW! I wasn't expecting that. I think Ben might be just as responsible as Widmore.
The final scene was all kinds of awesome. I do agree with everyone who said, Ben is after Penelope, and Charles is after the island. I think Ben knows exactly where the island is, as I'm guessing he transported himself from the island to the dessert. This is probably where the Orchid is gonna come into play.
I liked that Jack finally called out Daniel and Charlotte, and nice work using Bernard to out them. I still think Daniel is overall a pretty good guy, and someone who's in over his head. Charlotte I think knows a lot more of what the Freighters true intentions are.
Sawyer was great, Hurley was great, and I'm glad Claire is ok, for now.
I think Ben obviously summoned the Smoke Monster, but I don't think he can control it necessarily. I think that's why he told everyone to get as far away from the Merc's as possible. I still think Smokey is pretty rogue.
Also, as someone else said, I wouldn't put it past Ben if he killed Nadia to get Sayid on his side. The sly smile that Ben had on his face as he walked away after Sayid kille that guy was priceless, and there seems to be more behind it then just having Sayid on his side now.
wow wow! what is this, a chess game? are they related, ben and widmore?
and sawyer is a hero! im afraid for his safety now.... look at him as a big brother to both claire and hurley!!
i loved the way they made the character evolve.
hugo's also great.
lost is just fantastic.
Great episode...
Why Ben cannot kill Widmore, my guess :
because the Island won't let him.
I say, best episode ever! i've never been so shocked ever, from watchin a tv show
Great episode. I keep thinking about why Ben cannot kill Charles Widmore.... all I can think of is...... maybe because Charles W. is Ben's constant????
wow omg omg this wa sthe best ever show they get better n better but as i said before i wish they wouldnt kill off alot of the ones they do until w eknow there whole story that really ticks me off n my pals.and bens a disgrace i mean even if that was my daughter adopted n raised id trade my life for hers in a second w eknow he always finds a way out of sheet lol.i was so ticke doff at him and usley i see his way to things but he acted the coward to me.and i hope keemygets killed very slowley n cruely killing a child the jerk.and benard way to go on the morris code woot.n rose snapping at red.and even thg im no big swayer fan i like this new big brother role hes taken on worrying for clare n baby and hurley.loved when he said soemthg like if u harm one hair on his curley head lol.much better side ot him for sure.and thank god clare dint die least not yet i was so worried wa son edge of my seat me n sis were scremaing poor husbands thgt we lost it lol no pun intendedlol.so many good point could go on all night btu i did call one right i said bet jacks kidney or apendix lol.hope hes okay and calling for kate,...i want kate!! wow awesoem i bow to the writers n producers great show ever!
I don't think Ben killed Nadia and framed Bakir and/or Widmore for it if nothing else because it appeared he was quite surprised to see sayid (shortly after he "arrived", that is) on TV...and it was about the funeral too so Nadia must have JUST been murdered when Ben returned from the "rock" that is lovely this time of year...
By the way, that comment about "your rock" seems to suggest that Charles Widmore not only seeks to claim the Island but it truly was HIS to begin with in some absolute way...BUT HOW??? I thought I had that stuff figured out (to a certain satisfying extent, that is), but of course not, it's LOST! Can't wait for more and more and more and the Orchid.
And more.
Holy smoke (pun very much intended :P)
That was quite possible the best or second best episode of season 4 and certainly the most aptly named episode of lost of all time.
The shape of things to come? Most certainly and it definitely showed why you don't cross Ben (Are we going to see that with every Ben centric episode? Someone wrongs him and then he performs mass murder)
The ending was very nicely played. I liked the fact that Ben and Widmore's faces were both half shadowed, mirroring each other.
Gotta hand it to them. That was worth waiting for.
Awesome episode. So awesome infact that revelations at the end hit me in the head like a 20 pound sledge hammer. The dialogue was so subtle, but Ben and Widmore gave it away in that very dialogue. Widmore is going under another name. Widmore asks Ben if he is there to kill him. Ben says that he knows he can't do that. Widmore calls Ben a boy. Ben says Widmore changed the rules. Ben is going to kill his daughter. Widmore and Ben challenge each other to find the unfindable. Man, it was like a ton of bricks falling on me.
I haven't hammered out all the details, but I think I know Charles Widmore is. Charles Widmore is the immortal captain of the Black Rock. He found and got stuck on the island somehow. He then found a way to get off the island after a long stay on it. That's why he bought the ledger. It was his and he lost it. He needed it to formulate the plan to get back the island from Hanso/Dharma. Ben can't kill him because he is immortal. When Widmore called Ben a boy, with the accent and deep voice, I envisioned a hardened sea skulking pirate and that when it hit me who Widmore was/is. That's all I have now, but a great episode. Badass to the bone. If anyone has come up with this idea before me, I apologize. I never read it or heard it and this idea came to me only tonight.
Ben better hope there isn't a speargun near Penny. Looks like someone's been looking at my wish list: superspy gunfight scenes for Desmond.
No, but seriously... Would anyone be against Desmond killing Ben?
Koji said...
I say, best episode ever! i've never been so shocked ever, from watchin a tv show
Completely agree!
I have never in my LIFE seen something that awesome on network television.
What a way to ratchet it up heading into the final arc of the season.
LOST IS BACK!!
And I just had to vote "Awful" for this episode. I'm sorry, but an episode THIS good has too much of a chance of toppling my Dessy's Constant. I won't allow that to happen.
Perhaps Penelope Widmore is the Economist...
You voted awful so "The Constant" can stay #1? That's pretty lame. It's still LOST, who cares which episode is #1. I never thought "The Constant" was better than "Through the Looking Glass", but I still voted it Awesome.
Ben is far from a good guy people. While he may be fighting for the right cause right now it doesn't diminish all the awful things he has done.
Stealing kids including Walt which caused Micheal to go off the deep end!!!!
Keeping his people in the dark on his ability to go back and forth from the island!!!
And then tonight saying the awful things about Alex and basically letting her die rules or not!!!
Just to name a few I could go on and on. Just saying he is far from a good person neither is Widmore though even though I like him.
Bad ass characters hell yea good guys hell no!!!! lol!!! JMO!!!
What's one pebble on the beach of 4,108 others?
Exactly
Very good episode.
I thought the opening scene of the flashforward was one of the most fascinating... why Tunisia, the same country where Charlotte found the polar bear skeleton? He was clearly prepared for cold weather, and to me it looks like he ended up in the wrong place/time. Why did he have Marvin Candle's jacket?
Also, the end scene with Charles Widmore was fascinating too. It's interesting that he seems to think it's his island when as far as we've seen, he only found out about it recently.
I think Widmore "owned" the Dharma Initiative when the purge occured, and Ben took control from him, blocking his access from the island.
Also, it'll be interesting if Ben sends Sayid to kill Penelope, when Sayid knows who she is...
Halliwax's jacket.. Interestingg...
I really hope Ben doesn't kill Penny... that would be gutting for Desmond D:
*craves answers about Smokie*
Are they still actually including the other-others and teddy-on-a-string from Season 2.. I kind of hoped it was them in the last scene of 4x08.. not the freighter peoples..
Anyone still think Rousseau is alive.. it seems to be getting more unlikely all the time..
Also, does anyone know what time the England flash was set it.. because the guy on the left's hoodie was from Topman (I have the same one), and as far as I know they weren't around back in '05.. I'm probably being too observant here, but either:
a) is it possible there's a large gap between the Iraq flashes and the England flash
b) Continuity error and I am being incredibly pick
c) I'm wrong, they've bene out ages I just haven't seen them :P
I don't believe for a moment that Ben used Desmond's boat to sail to Fiji and charter a plane to Iraq. He's just not ready to share the time and space travel with Sayid. BTW, when asked about his tan he said it was nice in IRAQ this time of year, not YOUR ROCK.
I'm just so sad they killed Alex. Ben shouldn't have played mind games with his daughter life.
Besides that, HOLY $%¨&*&(! FANTASTIC episode, and started with a cute Jate scene ^^. Awesome!
so much to say about this episode! but some simple WOW O_O are enough
(can't wait for the recaps!!)
If the polls were working, I'd be voting awesome again! Maybe later in the day. Will check back.
Clair should have been dead in that explosion, but was barely harmed. Think the Island is protecting her anyone?? Humm - just a thought.
I'm thinking all of season 4 is gonna be awesome, but then I like them all anyway.
I'm probably the only one, but I thought that the secret door was how Ben got to Tunisia, not how he summoned Smokey. It's his "magic box". I haven't figured out the time thing - because my head hurts - but it seemed to me like the entire episode was what Darlton meant when they said that the word "flash" might become irrelevant: instead of this really being a flash-forward for Ben, the whole thing was semi-simultaneous. After Alex gets killed, he goes in the closet and jumps through time to Tunisia 2005, to recruit Sayid, threaten Widmore, etc.
Something like support for this:
*the title: "The Shape of Things to Come". We know TPTB are gonna change the game, and that the flashes will get lost in that shuffle...so maybe this epi is the first sign of what's to come in season 5
*What with all the refs to Slaughterhouse 5, I thought of this: the Tramalfadorians see all time as occurring at once (past, present and future simultaneously). Sounds like this episode.
*It would explain why the passports, extra clothes, etc. are hidden there of all places. Who needs ten suits to summon Smokey? It makes much more sense that the closet is his time-travel portal/door; he changes clothes in there, and can leave and return undetected that way. How would he explain to the Others why he was strolling through the jungle in a parka, a suit, or Bedouin garb? "Don't be alarmed, just hiking to the Orchid?" I doubt it.
*Last but not least, the sun is down when he returns to the room with Sawyer and Locke. Locke specifically said the sun would be down in 20 minutes - and it is firmly down and dark when Ben returns. Would it take that long to summon Smokey? Maybe, but I doubt it. BUT, if Ben can travel through time, what seems like a long while would be...oh...maybe 20 minutes, as we saw with Desmond and Minkowski in "The Constant."
I think the whole going in the room and then the monster coming thing was misdirection. Ben probably CAN summon it somehow, but it doesn't take 20 minutes in a hieroglyph-closet to do it. When he went in that closet, he went forward in time to set his revenge plan in motion. Who knows, maybe while he was in the future he did some research to find out that Smokey killed the freighter guys, and THAT'S how he knew...
loved the episode.
What's up with the Dr. being alive on the freighter and dead on the island?
What's up with no fire after the explosion on Claire's house? Great reference with the shoes... How come was she ok after only a few minutes? The house blew up!
How does Ben travel? Does he not know when and where he is going?
Bernard was awesome....
I think the Island doesn't let Ben or Wildmore get killed. Ben mentioned that he couldn't do it, but after the rules where changed he could if he was able to do it.
I love that Ben is going after Penny... (Yes, I love her story line) because it means we will see much more of her and Desmond....
Ben had no choice in negotiating. He didn't believe Alex would get killed (there was an agreement) and what else should he do? Go out - get captured and let everybody else get killed? Obviously he know way more than anyone..
John is clueless and silly.... he lost some brownie points with me again...
I think that's it..
Loved the episode...
ABC, stop with the 514 commercials.. it wasn't fun!
We want more LOST time!
It's kind of been referred to, but I think one of the rules is: you can't kill family. When Ben said, "She's not my daughter," he cleared the way for Keamy to kill her. That's why Widmore said that Ben killed her.
Two amazing revelations made by my coworker:
Widmore is Ben's Constant...that's why he can't kill him.
The last scene was out of order with the other flash forwards and The last scene occured immediately after Ben ran into his closet. After he said "changed the rules" he confronted Widmore in his bedroom.
Just some Friday morning cubicle chatter...
I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who dosen't watch this show. It's beginning to scale some insane heights :)
WOW
The best episode of the season !!!
(The writers have found their way again, and I'm glad to watch it)
METHDRA: I think that was your screen name. Good point I also thought that Widmore could possibly be the captain of the black rock. The "boy" thing hits it right on the nose. The wasy he talks about it being his seems to come from some where else other than being a dharma investor...
For the first time in my life watching history I didnt care what was happening on the beach! Ben really stole the show and the last monologue gave me goosebumps! This show is insane (in a good way) and I loved every momnet of it.
Btw Smokey was kind of hilarious and I miss the S1 smokey.
Awesome episode, loved it all :0
Here is a screencap of the logo Ben has on his jacket.
http://img113.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benep9xb7.png
aint one I've seen before, unless I'm mixed up on one of the others.
DARK - can you please delete the comments that have the titles of future episodes in them? That is spoiler material, and people trying really hard to live spoiler-free, like me, don't want to know these things.
AWESOME!!! I still haven't retrieved my jaw from the floor yet...
O yea I forgot about the sexy Kate start to the episode. Nice Jate scene and that adds to the episode even more now that I think about it lol!!!
This episode was truly amazing. Smokey was awesome, bigger and better and I agree with many of you, Ben can summon it but he can't control all it does.
Of course, there's more to Benjamin Linus than a merely good or bad adjective. I just wonder how his story with Widmore began? I mean, the way they talk to each other, those rules they talk about, is like they know from such a long time.
BTW, Hurley may be more important to this story than many think. He's not just the sympathetic and sweet part of Lost.
Another thing that left me thinking is how much Widmore and Jacob's voice sound alike, honestly, like they were the same person. When Widmore talked to Ben, he kind of creeped me out the same way Jacob did when he said "HELP ME" to Locke.
@dan: I think after the whole killing Cooper thing, Sawyer is finally letting James grow and see the light, as he was very much opressed. That's why he has changed and he'll keep on changing as Sawyer fades and James takes over. Of course, don't let that fool you, because, in my opinion, James can be even more dangerous when it's about protecting those he cares for.
just OMG!!!
very intense, very creepy
smokie - the best
now i can say for sure - LOST is back
AMEN
Just thought I would give a booyah!! to all the peeps who thought it was the Others who killed Rousseau and Karl at the end of 4x08. Wow, you were so wrong. Ben is not quite that evil... but people on the Lost boards love to demonize him. I thought this was better than the Constant. Constant was brilliant for sure but I didn't blow my load over it like most people did.
Joana: Loved the episode... ABC, stop with the 514 commercials.. it wasn't fun!
===========
Commercials were the same. You have to remember though that most Lost episodes this year have gone over (ie, been 62 minutes with commercials).
Now Greys Anatomy is running over so Lost is only 58 minutes w/commercials.
So, it cuts the time of the episode down by a couple minutes.
As for the house blowing up, it's of the same awfulness as being able to use a picnic table as a bullet-proof shield.
It's really the reason this episode isn't the best of all time in my book. Because of how AWFUL the action scenes were.
I can only suspend by disbelief so far before it's just absurd :)
@Jake3988
I sort of assumed that Sawyer was using it for a "confusion" kind of thing. Ditto with the picket fence.
Besides - There's a perfectly good reason why Sawyer didn't die in a hail of bullets behind a wood picnic table or a picket fence. There is a reasonable explanation why Claire was fine despite having a house fall on her head.
The Island isn't done with them yet. They can't die. :)
Anyone remember the A-Team?
Explosions, gunfire, vehicular collisions and all manner of peril in every damn episode...and nobody ever died!
I guess the island was protecting them too ;)
"The island won't let you die" explanation is going to come in handy several times I think. Just hope it isn't overused. I think it would work better if they used some bullet time or something showing the bullets physically dodging Sawyer when they get too close. Same deal with Claire miraculously surviving an explosion with barely a scratch. It can be kind of like how electromagnetism explains everything in this show.
ben in desert looks like that squirrel - scrat from Ice Age...
To those of you who seem to think the producers said we'd find out what happened to Danielle in episode 9, listen to the podcast more carefully.
What they actually said was that we'd find out who shot her in episode 9, but that we'd find out her fate in episode 10.
One thing I noticed:
When Ben talks to Widmore, Widmore already knows that Alex was killed. That means that someone reports back to him about what happened on the island. Either Keamy survived and contacts him, or Ben told him before this meeting.